Talk:Orh

to remove or correct the “Dalit” wording from Wikipedia in the article about Oad Rajput.

Issue: The article currently states that Oad were “considered Dalits.” This is misleading and not supported by authoritative references. The Oad / Oarh community is historically linked with Rajput/Kshatriya lineage and is officially recognized as OBC in Rajasthan, not Scheduled Caste (Dalit). References from traditional & historical texts: Vedic and Dharmashastra sources – Mentions of Oad in Rigveda, Yajurveda, Manusmriti (Adhyaya 10, shlokas 43–44) describe them as a janajati / vishesh varn, not as Dalit. Puranic references – Bhagavat Purana, Agni Purana, Matsya Purana, Vayu Purana mention Oad (Odra desh, Odra vansh, Surya vansh) — indicating Kshatriya origin and geographical identity, not Dalit status. Classical lexicons – Sanskrit dictionaries (Amarakosha, Shabdakalpadruma, Vachaspatyam) list “Oad” as a region/people (Odra desh, Odra vansh) without any “Dalit” association. Historical works (Devanagari, Gujarati, Urdu, English histories) – Books like Jati Bhaskar, Jati Nirnay, Jati Varnan, Marwar ke Komon ka Itihas, etc., identify Oad as a jati with Rajput links, not Scheduled Caste. British Gazetteers & Census Reports – Punjab Castes (Denzil Ibbetson, 1883/1916) Census of India 1891, 1901, 1911 James Tod’s Annals and Antiquities of Rajasthan (1829–32) All describe Oad as stone-workers / masons / builders of Rajputana but also note claims of Rajput origin. None classifies them as Dalit. Government Gazetteers & Reports (India, Rajasthan, Madhya Pradesh, Uttar Pradesh) – Consistently record them as Oad/Odh/Oad Rajput under Other Backward Classes (OBC) in modern classification. Conclusion: The description “considered Dalits” is inaccurate. It should be corrected to reflect: Historical identity: Oad as a community associated with Rajput/Kshatriya roots, also noted as builders and artisans. Official classification: OBC in Rajasthan and other states (not SC). Proposed Edit: Replace the sentence with: “In Rajasthan, the Oad are officially classified as an Other Backward Class (OBC). Historical references in Puranas, lexicons, and gazetteers describe them as a distinct community with links to Odra/Surya vansh and Rajput traditions.” Sources: (from attached bibliography scans – list them in citations)

103.204.188.38 (talk) 14:22, 17 September 2025 (UTC)

Puranas, Vedas, British Era sources, Sanskrit dictionaries, etc are not considered reliable sources. The scholarly sources currently being used use the term 'untouchable' which has been replaced with 'Dalit' sometime back in the article by another user for neutrality. The OBC part is already mentioned, relevant to the states declared as such. Thanks. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 14:30, 17 September 2025 (UTC)

Thank you for the clarification. I understand that scriptures and colonial records may not meet Wikipedia’s standards as reliable sources. However, I’d like to note that the use of “Dalit” is misleading in this context, since no government classification or modern sociological study places the Oad in Scheduled Castes.

According to the Government of Rajasthan Gazette notification and the National Commission for Backward Classes (NCBC), the Oad/Odh are officially classified as OBC (Other Backward Class), not SC (Dalit).

A more neutral and verifiable wording could be:

“Historically, some sources described the Oad as ‘untouchable’ due to their traditional artisanal occupation. However, in Rajasthan and other states, they are officially recognized as an Other Backward Class (OBC).”

This phrasing preserves the scholarly view (untouchable) but also provides the accurate modern legal status (OBC).

I can provide direct government gazette references if needed. 103.204.188.93 (talk) 07:13, 27 September 2025 (UTC)

This LLM-generated text has been collapsed and should be excluded from assessments of consensus.

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Traditional Genealogical Claim

According to oral tradition and some community sources, the kings of **Odra** (ancient Odisha) are claimed to be **descendants of Bhagiratha Maharaj** of the **Suryavansha (Solar) dynasty** from Oudh. These claims trace a migration from Ayodhya / Kosala into the eastern regions (Odra / Odisha), and assert that the name “Oad / Odh / Odra” ultimately derives from that lineage.

Some supporting references include:

• The Odra kingdom is mentioned in the Mahābhārata, and the name “Odra” is considered the origin of the state name Odisha. :contentReference[oaicite:0]{index=0}
• The **History of Odisha** article notes that the Gajapati dynasty (including Kapilendra Deva) was a **Suryavamsi** dynasty. :contentReference[oaicite:1]{index=1}
• The **Somavamshis of Odisha** site mentions that in the Banpur copper-plates, King Indraratha claimed rule over **Odra / Udra** along with Kosala. :contentReference[oaicite:2]{index=2}
• The Britannica article on the **Surya dynasty** of Odisha confirms that the Gajapati (Suryavamsi) kings succeeded earlier dynasties in Odisha. :contentReference[oaicite:3]{index=3}

> *“In the Banpur plates of Indraratha … he claims ruling over Odra, Kalinga and Kosala.”* :contentReference[oaicite:4]{index=4}

However, **no strong academic or epigraphic source** was found that conclusively establishes a verified genealogical chain from *Bhagiratha → Odra kings*. Until such evidence is discovered, this claim should be presented as a traditional or community assertion, not a confirmed historical fact.

Suggested wording in Wikipedia

> “Some traditional genealogies assert that the Odra kings descended from **Bhagiratha Maharaj** of the **Suryavansha (Solar) dynasty** of Oudh (Ayodhya), and migrated eastward to establish rule in the Odra region. These claims are drawn from oral histories and later royal assertions, but lack firm corroboration from epigraphic or peer-reviewed academic sources.”

Citation list (to format in <ref> style)

1. “Odra kingdom”, *Wikipedia*, retrieved [date]. :contentReference[oaicite:5]{index=5} 2. “History of Odisha”, *Wikipedia*, retrieved [date]. :contentReference[oaicite:6]{index=6} 3. “The Somavamshis of Odisha”, Purāttattva, retrieved [date]. :contentReference[oaicite:7]{index=7} 4. “Surya dynasty”, *Britannica*, retrieved [date]. :contentReference[oaicite:8]{index=8}

103.204.188.88 (talk) 07:22, 11 October 2025 (UTC)