Talk:Operation Mincemeat

The origin of the word 'Tramp'

I am Roger Morgan, the discoverer of Glyndwr Michael's name in the National Archives in 1996, published in 'After The Battle' magazine issue September 1996, the source of all subsequent press coverage. I have, up till now, abstained from reading this Wikipedia article - but I see there is controversy over the word.

It was I who first used the word 'tramp' in the above article. Everyone else has copied it from that article, and then copied each other. At the time I had very little biographical information on Glyn, and from what I knew of the circumstances of his death it was a justifiable attribution.

As the result of the media feeding frenzy my article launched I was contacted by Glyn's nephew and through him his wider family. They strongly object to characterising him as a 'tramp' (perceived as an unkempt smelly homeless man in dirty old clothes, living by begging, alcoholic and probably insane). In no way does it describe the Glyn they remember as a lively, dapper, 'ducker and diver'.

I therefore accept I got it wrong, and as all references to 'tramp' derive from me, everyone else has too. I withdraw the term. It is impossible at this distance in time to ascertain how Glyn ended up in a warehouse having eaten meat bait laced with phosphorus rat poison. A better description, without pejorative connotations, would be 'homeless man'.

And incidentally, his relatives said they "always wondered what happened to him after the war" and "his father was never asked by, or gave his permission to, Montagu to use Glyn's body". Directly contradicting Montagu's account of the 'eternal oath of secrecy'. Taken with oblique comments in the NA files I think we may deduce Montagu stole the body - this was the big secret, not the name. Wolstan Dixie (talk) 12:39, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

The term was connected to the body located quite some time before work was undertaken in the 1990s to identify them. There is a standing consensus for the article (the discussions are all in the archive) - based on the definition of "tramp" - that it is a suitable term, referring to "one who travels from place to place on foot, in search of employment, or as a vagrant", as the OED has it. - SchroCat (talk) 13:03, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

Further, the core Wikipedia policy WP:RS supports its use. The encyclopedia goes by what published sources say. Additionally Wikipedia is not censored, and possible offensiveness is not a valid reason for such a change. (Regardless, I don't think "tramp" is particularly perjorative. I think of 'Tramp', the admirable rugged individualist, from Disney's Lady and the Tramp.) ~ HAL333 15:36, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

i have removed the word as inappropriate and there is too much edit warring going on with it being replaced without discussion. Can people please remember BRD Sharnadd (talk) 10:08, 8 March 2026 (UTC)

There is a long-standing consensus on this which is backed up by the sources. You have breached BRD and that consensus. Please discuss rather than edit war. - SchroCat (talk) 10:40, 8 March 2026 (UTC)

Basil Thomson

The book by him used as inspiration is called "The Milliner's Hat". AMCKen (talk) 21:02, 3 April 2026 (UTC)

Subsection Identity of corpse, section Development - is this quoted phrase complete?

In this otherwise excellent Featured Article I noticed a quoted phrase of Ewen Montagu about the corpse of Glyndwr Michael that looks as if a word might be missing. Could someone please check? I give the entire sentence with the passage in quotation marks for context:

Montagu refused to identify the individual and described him as "a bit of a ne'er-do-well, and that the only worthwhile thing that he ever did he did after his death".

Normally if I said the quoted phrase I would have added "was" between "did" and "after". If the quoted phrase was exactly as Montagu wrote it, I can accept it. I read Montagu's book and a more recent one about Operation Mincemeat but don't have either book in my possession.Cloptonson (talk) 09:50, 16 July 2026 (UTC)

I don't have the Montagu book either, but the same phrase is quoted by the BBC. Nikkimaria (talk) 04:38, 17 July 2026 (UTC)