Talk:One potato, two potato

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Theleekycauldron (talk) 01:57, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

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• ... that the traditional children's counting-out rhyme "One potato, two potato" has been surpassed in popularity by an extended version called "Coca Cola"? Source: Boy: People have been playing ‘One Potato’ for approximately 200 years, but now it is one of the less known counting games. Children: [Rhyming] One potato, two potato, three potato, four. Five potato, six potato, seven potato, more. Boy: But there is a counting game like ‘One Potato’. It is called ‘Coca Cola’. It is one of the most popular counting games.
  Source British Library: https://www.bl.uk/playtimes/videos/counting-out-rhymes-animation

Created by MichaelMaggs (talk). Self-nominated at 16:15, 8 August 2021 (UTC).

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

QPQ: None required.

Overall: Article is new enough, long enough, neutral and plagiarism-free. However, I am concerned about the reliability of Mama Lisa's World as it seems to be a blog. Hook is interesting and cited in article. Nominator only has two prior noms so no QPQ needed. Pamzeis (talk) I am not watching this page so please ping me if you want my attention. 08:47, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

• Pamzeis, thanks for the review. Source replaced with the website of Scottish Book Trust. MichaelMaggs (talk) MichaelMaggs (talk) 10:02, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

Thank you. Good to go Pamzeis (talk) 11:45, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

• MichaelMaggs, Pamzeis, I'm not convinced that the main fact in the hook, that "one potato, two potato" has been surpassed in popularity, is adequately supported. A video, even by the British library, has little context: is this true in the local area? In the entire UK? In the English-speaking world (including the United States)? Without proper context, such a broad claim requires more article and source specifics. BlueMoonset (talk) 15:43, 22 August 2021 (UTC)

BlueMoonset, I see what you mean. Ideally it would be good to restrict to a particular area, or time period, but the source doesn't support anything like that. Perhaps something very specific would work (2010 being the date of the BL page; we don't of course know if the situation has changed since then):

• Alt1 ... that by 2010 some children were reporting that the traditional counting-out rhyme "One potato, two potato" had been surpassed in popularity by an extended version called "Coca Cola"?

MichaelMaggs (talk) 16:32, 22 August 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the alt, but I still think BlueMoonset's concerns apply. While hooks can be vague, I'd think that the reader would expect more information at the page, which does not appear to be present here. Could you either be more specific on the popularity or offer an alt? Thank you. Pamzeis (talk) 06:20, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

Pamzeis, I believe that the alt I've suggested deals with the issue BlueMoonset raised. Genuinely unclear to me how I can be "specific on the popularity"; the hook is now very narrow and is fully supported by the source. MichaelMaggs (talk) 07:18, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

MichaelMaggs, from my perspective the problem is that the ALT hook says very little now, which is also a problem in the article. "Some children" is effectively meaningless: how would they know anything beyond their group of friends, or their classes, or maybe their school? And in this case, having watched the very short video, it sounds to me like they're reading a script, so I don't think you can safely use "some children were reporting" or safely ascribe this assertion to children at all. The problem here is that the British Library has given very little detail in their video and left a lot of questions as to their popularity claim. BlueMoonset (talk) 14:23, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

BlueMoonset, Pamzeis, if we can't even hang a narrow hook on the BL source, maybe it would be safer to go with something something different, such as

* Alt2 ... that the first record of the traditional children's counting-out rhyme "One potato, two potato" comes from Nova Scotia, Canada?

MichaelMaggs (talk) 14:48, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

Sorry for the late reply, I've been a bit distracted lately. I can't tell if the fact is mentioned in the article or not because the article states it "there seems to be no record earlier than 1885, when it was noted in Nova Scotia, Canada." (emphasis mine) I don't understand whether the rhyme was written or noticed (the (seemingly) two applicable verb definitions of "note" here). If it's written, then the article is (probably) good to go; if not, we might need another alternative. Could you clarify? Thanks. Pamzeis (talk) 08:56, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

Pamzeis, "Noted" means "recorded in writing". It's a common usage for folklore historians who can very seldom say exactly when a particular rhyme was invented and first used orally. All they can say is when it was first noted, ie first recorded in a written document. Maybe this will make it explicit:

* Alt3 ... that the first written record of the traditional children's counting-out rhyme "One potato, two potato" was in 1885 in Nova Scotia, Canada?

MichaelMaggs (talk) 10:15, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

ALT2 and 3 fine by me! AGFing on offline sources. Pamzeis (talk) 10:22, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

Many thanks. If both are acceptable, my personal preference would be for Alt3. MichaelMaggs (talk) 10:30, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

@MichaelMaggs and Pamzeis: I really like this hook! is it possible could be made more exciting if it were phrased differently:

ALT4: that the counting-out rhyme "One potato, two potato" is over 135 years old?

If not, I'm happy to promote ALT3, I just thought it'd be more "hooky" that way. (if you're all right with/prefer this one, someone else will promote it. i'll promote it) theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (they/them) 01:47, 29 August 2021 (UTC)

Fine by me! Pamzeis (talk) 01:50, 29 August 2021 (UTC)

Yes, let’s do it. MichaelMaggs (talk) 03:02, 29 August 2021 (UTC)

ALT4 to T:DYK/P4

question about game theory

Apologies if this is an inappropriate edit given the visibility of something above that says don't edit this page. I'm hoping that is directed at the embedded archive. That said, I'm requesting a clarification in the page as to whether or not the 'counting out' game aspect of this (as seen in the L.A. Law Season 1 Episode 10 tv show) is actually a 'fair game'. I.e. it seems to be used as an alternative to 'rock paper scissors', but it seems like it is a deterministic rather than random 'game' to me, thus not actually useful. I think this, if true, would be worth a mention on the page. 140.186.108.35 (talk) 03:10, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

It is deterministic, as you say, but as a children's way of selecting one of their number it is probably 'random enough'. Can't add anything about that into the article unless we have a reliable source that discusses the issue. MichaelMaggs (talk) 08:47, 3 February 2022 (UTC)