Talk:October 1503 conclave

Electoral Capitulations

Despite what Baumgartner might say, there were electoral capitulations. They are mentioned in Johannes Burchard's Diary, and they were signed by the Cardinals on 1 November 1503, All Saints' Day. The full text is to be found in: Johann Burchard (1885). L. Thuasne (ed.). Capelle pontificie sacrorum rituum magistri diarium: sive Rerum urbanarum commentarii (1483-1506) (in French and Latin). Vol. Tome troisième. Paris: E. Leroux. pp. 295–298, in note 1. See also Petruccelli, I, p. 463; Pastor, Volume VI, p. 211; Walter Ullmann (1972). "Julius and the Schismatic Cardinals". In Baker, Derek (ed.). Schism, Heresy and Religious Protest: Papers Read at the Tenth Summer Meeting and the Eleventh Winter Meeting of the Ecclesiastical History Society. Cambridge, England: Ecclesiastical History Society by Cambridge University Press. pp. 177–178. ISBN 978-0-521-08486-4.

--Vicedomino (talk) 22:05, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

Length of Conclave

The article states, on the authority of Baumgartner: "... making the conclave the shortest ever, less than ten hours." Burchard records that the Conclave was enclosed at the first hour of the night, which in November would be well before 6 p.m. He records that, next morning there was a Mass of the Holy Spirit, held at the "sixteenth hour" (I'm not good at Roman Time, but I do know that Mass cannot begin until it is light, which in November is after 6 a.m.). This was followed by the signing of the Capitulations, by all thirty-seven cardinals. After that, the Conclavists were removed and the doors closed, so that the voting could begin. The voting was by written ballot, and it was a preference ballot. One cardinal could name several candidates on the ballot, and five Cardinals did in fact take the trouble and time to do so . The details of each and every ballot were recorded by Burchard in his Diary.(Burchard, pp. 298-299) Then, unless there is a sudden demand for unanimity (and there is no record of it), the ballots need to be tallied. Then comes the ritual questions about accepting and taking a name. Then the official minute of the proceedings has to be drawn up by notaries (in this Conclave, the winner was known on October 20, and a draft could have been prepared long in advance) and witnessed. And only then is the Conclave completed. All of this could not have taken less than ten hours. Baumgartner did not know essential information, the Capitulations (they are always referred to in the plural, by the way), and therefore his reckoning is way off. The statement should be deleted.

--Vicedomino (talk) 22:53, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

Baumgartner actually says "the shortest conclave ever; the cardinals had been locked in for less than ten hours." meaning the time since the closing of the doors. This seems like plenty of time to count a single ballot, especially when the result was known and a name was prepicked. Why would the signing of the capitulation be counted as part of the length of the conclave? — jonas (talk) 12:40, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:2025 papal conclave which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 17:16, 8 June 2025 (UTC)