Talk:Noosha Fox

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 22:12, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

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• Comment or view
• Article history

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• ... that Ben Goldacre announced that Noosha Fox was his mother after watching her on a Top of the Pops rerun? Source: https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2011/may/29/critics-notebook-alexis-petridis
• ALT1: ... that the physician and science writer Ben Goldacre announced that Noosha Fox was his mother after watching her on a Top of the Pops rerun? Source: https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2011/may/29/critics-notebook-alexis-petridis

5x expanded by Launchballer (talk). Self-nominated at 21:16, 23 April 2020 (UTC).

• Hi Launchballer, here is my review:

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy compliance:

• Adequate sourcing: - There are two dispute tags needing sorted, although the prose seems sufficiently sourced
• Neutral:
• Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:
• Other problems: - Currently classed as a stub. Article is 2255 characters long, so it is capable of being promoted to start class.

Hook eligibility:

• Cited:
• Interesting:
• Other problems: - You might want to describe what Ben Goldacre does (doctor/writer/columnist etc)

QPQ: None required.

Overall: A good start, but the article requires a bit of work to get it up to standard. However, the hook is well cited and interesting. Thanks, PinkPanda272 (talk/contribs) 11:21, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

Dispute tags removed, one of them should never have been put there. I've reclassified the article, and added a brief sentence explaining what Ben Goldacre's best known for. The QPQ check on the right-hand side of this page says I've only got three credits?--Launchballer 14:40, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

Launchballer: Mostly within policy now, although I was meaning to put Goldacre's job description in the hook. I am confused about the QPQ, I saw on your userpage that you have '130 DYK credits' and assumed that it was missing when I did a name-search on WP:DYKN? I do appreciate that the QPQ check tool brings up just three nominations, so I will AGF and mark it as exempt. There is also an uncited paragraph at the very bottom of the 'Career' section, apologies for not noticing this earlier. Thanks, PinkPanda272 (talk/contribs) 20:37, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

Sourced; the sentence originally came from Fox (band), and was added the same day as an episode of that went out, so it's a safe bet that that's the episode responsible.--Launchballer 21:09, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

Launchballer: The article is looking good now, the hook is interested and well-cited, so I'm happy to sign this off. It may still be a good idea to add Goldacre's job description to the hook as some visitors will likely not know who he is. Cheers, PinkPanda272 (talk/contribs) 06:00, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

Oh, I thought you meant say what Ben Goldacre does in the article.

ALT1: ... that the physician, academic and science writer Ben Goldacre announced that Noosha Fox was his mother after watching her on a Top of the Pops rerun?--Launchballer 11:22, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

@Launchballer: That looks good, I have added it to the top and removed 'academic' as including three titles is a bit much. Thanks, PinkPanda272 (talk/contribs) 18:33, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

• @PinkPanda272: This nomination needs a QPQ. I have promoted many of Launchballer's nominations in the past. Yoninah (talk) 20:56, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

Reviewed Hotel Milan. Why does QPQ checker think I've only got three credits?--Launchballer 21:50, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

• Thank you. Restoring tick per PinkPanda272's review. Yoninah (talk) 22:10, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

My comment is that there are probably several million articles which would be better bets for the "main page" than this one. The issue over her birth year is vanishingly unlikely to be resolved in the short term - unless a decision were made to press on with a clearly incorrect birth year (see discussion below), which would be unforgivable in an article promoted as good practice. Ghmyrtle (talk) 11:39, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

Birth year

Just noting that, born in 1954, she would have travelled to England as a singer at the age of 15 or (at most) 16, and married (to someone ten years her senior) at 18. Her birth date is reliably sourced, but I wonder if it may be a "showbiz" birth date, rather than a real one. Ghmyrtle (talk) 13:35, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

I agree that this presents problems. I've looked for a good source but I can't find a reliable one so I won't change the article. However, I think it's a typo for 1944.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 02:58, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

I haven't been able to find anything much online either, other than this site which says there is a Susan Goldacre, age 70+, living with a Michael Goldacre in Oxfordshire. Pictured here (on left) in 2007. Electoral registers accessible via Ancestry.com suggest that that person was born circa 1942-44. As Ben Goldacre is a stickler for truth, maybe he can confirm a birth year? Ghmyrtle (talk) 09:07, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

Let's keep WP:BLP in mind, always, and not dive through dumpsters or primary records looking for scraps per WP:BLPPRIMARY (reference 1 already violates this). If "truth" is elusive, and published date implausible or conflicts with other sources, one option is to simply omit the date until better sourcing arises, and write a bit more carefully. --Animalparty! (talk) 18:29, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

I'm prepared to take the reliable source at face value over any of the primary sources and have removed the primary source currently in the article per WP:BLP. Those sources could both very well be referring to a different Susan Goldacre; indeed, there are at least two unrelated people with my name living in my London Borough.--Launchballer 14:36, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

I can understand (though I don't share) your aspiration to have an article to which you've contributed appearing on the "main page" - but this is an exceptionally bad choice of article. The sourcing is poor (largely from sources that fail reliability tests), and a key piece of the information that does come from a so-called "reliable source" is patently wrong (however much you may claim that it may not be). I'm surprised that you still think that promoting the article in this way is a good idea. Ghmyrtle (talk) 15:44, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

PS: Searching sites like 192.com strongly suggests that there is only one person named Susan M. Goldacre in the UK, and she shares an address with Michael J. Goldacre. Ghmyrtle (talk) 09:54, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

Susan grew up in Guildford, NSW, went to school for a few years at St. John's, Auburn, New South Wales, Australia. Susan used to entertain us with her poetry recitations on special days in class, notably one called 'Isobel'. I believe she was coached in 'elocution' by her father. I was born in July, 1945. I believe she was born in December, 1944.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:44b8:311c:cf00:28c5:6935:5d8b:e372 (talk • contribs) 09:37, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

That's interesting, but anecdotal and unsourced, so can't be included in the article. Thanks anyway. Ghmyrtle (talk) 10:36, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

PS: The German Wikipedia article on Fox here and the Dutch article here both give her birth date as 8 December 1944. Ghmyrtle (talk) 22:29, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

I've removed the year for now, although the 1944 does seem likely. This source here explicitly gives it as 8 december 1944...  — Amakuru (talk) 22:14, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for finding that source. The only source that has previously been cited showing the 1954 date is this one - which was published by "Books on Demand". If we simply ignore that source - which I would regard as not meeting WP:RS criteria - I would be happy to include the 1944 year from your more reliable source, which aligns with all of the circumstantial evidence. Ghmyrtle (talk) 22:27, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

I've learnt something, because I thought the costs of printing made self-publishing books prohibitively expensive, meaning there wouldn't be any such thing. I've added the 1944 date and cited Amakuru's source.--Launchballer 23:38, 20 May 2020 (UTC)