Talk:Neoconservatism

Post-Neoconservative era

Political monitors throughout the early 21st century have been preparing for a post-Neoconservative American era.

Inclusion of Oriana Fallaci on list of neoconservatives.

The inclusion of Oriana Fallaci on this list seems wrong to me. She was not associated closely with any of the other movement neoconservatives. During the time that the neoconservative was completely focused on the projection of American power abroad and the Iraq war she wrote mostly about domestic issues in Italy, in Italian! She properly fits into the European New Right, a group which is at odds with the Neoconservative movemnet much more than they agree with them.

I'm un-clear on the process which was used to assemble this list but I would like to start a discussion about removing Fallaci. She is deceased and can not speak for herself on this matter, so extra care devolves to the editors to not mischaracterize her. Have no doubt that for many people this is a rogues gallery, and so including people here can be seen as a risk for score settling and mischief making in character destruction and ongoing political disputes.

meta for Google

For whatever reason, when one Google's "neoconservative", the abstract that pops up under the Wikipedia link reads:

"Neoconservatism (commonly shortened to neocon) is a political movement born in the United States during the 1960s among conservative leaning Democrats who became disenchanted with the party's foreign policy."

~~luxdsg~~

Neoconservativism and "Trotskyism".

Currently the article says "Historically speaking, the term neoconservative refers to a group of Trotskyist academics from New York who moved from the anti-Stalinist left to conservatism during the 1960s and 1970s. The movement had its intellectual roots in the magazine Commentary, edited by Norman Podhoretz, after they spoke out against the moral relativism of the New Left, and in that way helped define the movement."

This should not be stated as fact. It is a claim that has its origin in far-right conspiracy theories and later was picked up by more mainstream outlets around the period of the Iraq War as well as by Stalinist polemicists. This paragraph also directly contradicts itself:

Claim 1. It refers to a group of Trotskyist academics from New York who moved from the anti-Stalinist left to conservativism during the 1960s and 1970s.

Claim 2. It had its intellectual roots in the Magazine Commentary, edited by Norman Podhoretz.

The first claim is playing fast and loose with the term "Trotskyist" when what it actually means is the New York Intellectuals, a milieu of intellectuals primarily from a working-class Jewish background who were educated primarily at CCNY during the 1930s, some (but not all, or even most) of whom had associations with Shachtmanism during or after their attendance at CCNY. When some of these people later became conservatives a conspiracy theory was created by "Paleocons" who were suspicious of their support of some liberal ideas and their Jewish background. William King has written on this myth: King, W. (2004). “Neoconservatives and ‘Trotskyism’.” American Communist History, 3(2), 247–266. doi:10.1080/1474389042000309817.

The 2nd claim is just bizarre. This is not only because Podhoretz was always a liberal Democrat and an anti-communist prior to becoming associated with Neoconservativism, but one presumes that he also wasn't attending CCNY or joining any Trotskyist organizations while he was an infant or small child in the 1930s. (He never attended CCNY at all) While it is probably accurate to cite Commentary as an early and important journal in the origins of Neoconservatism, it is strange to cite it as the "intellectual roots" of the movement and to conflate it with the New York Intellectuals (some of whom did write for it, but Podhoretz was too young to be part of this group) or to conflate the New York Intellectuals with Trotskyism. Chilltherevolutionist (talk) 06:59, 22 May 2026 (UTC)

Here's a link to King's article. Can you suggest better wording for the text?

As I understand it, the term neoconservative was used by Michael Harrington to describe Socialist Party members who supported Nixon in 1972. He meant they were new conservatives. It did not mean that people who subsequently joined them had also been Socialist Party members. Ben Wattenberg for example worked for Sen. Scoop Jackson and recruited pro-Nixon Socialists to support him.

These Socialists belonged to a faction that had originated with the Trotskyist Socialist Workers Party, but had broken with Trotsky shortly before his murder in 1940. But most of the original neoconservatives would have been too young to be associated with Trotskyism.

Any other links between neoconservatism and Trotskyism are speculation at best. However, that does not erase its historical origins. TFD (talk) 14:04, 22 May 2026 (UTC)