Talk:Mykola Chaikovsky

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by SL93 talk 02:20, 23 June 2025 (UTC)

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• ... that Ukrainian mathematician Mykola Chaikovsky wrote the first Ukrainian-language science fiction novel? Source: https://fantlab.org/blogarticle37223 and https://archivsf.narod.ru/1887/nikolay_chaykovskiy/index.htm
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Hiskia Ndjoze-Uanivi

Created by Piotrus (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 558 past nominations.

_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 11:24, 10 May 2025 (UTC).

• This is not a review, but how well-attested is the claim that the novel was the first Ukrainian-language sci-fi novel? That's quite a bold and exceptional claim, and per the guidelines such claims require exceptional sourcing to make sure that it's actually true. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 14:58, 11 May 2025 (UTC)
  • @Narutolovehinata5: I agree the current sourcing is so-so; the cited source (FantLab) is not listed as unreliable, but it also does not strike me as scholarly. Unfortunately, if better sources exist, they are in Ukranian/Russian, and searching in these languages is hard for me (I've asked AI to search for scholarly sources in ru/uk; if I find anything better I'll update this post). I've proposed a safer ALT1 below, backed up by a reliable English ref. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 09:27, 12 May 2025 (UTC)
• ALT1: ... that Ukrainian mathematician Mykola Chaikovsky wrote one of the first Ukrainian science fiction novels and published it in Poland? Source: https://sf-encyclopedia.com/entry/ukraine

• I would steer away from "first" and focus on other aspects of the book's early focus on solar power (I think that meets WP:DYKFICTION?). Also, the Wikipedia content is verbatim from SFE. Viriditas (talk) 20:02, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

• @Viriditas: This is why I said "one of the first". As far as I can tell from my research, this is correct - and the work is also called THE first work of SF in Ukrainian language. Anyway, "one of the first" should really be not a controversial claim. As for SFE - possible, since I write it (the SFE entry), just like I wrote our entry (I was working on both at the same time, in fact) and I retain the copyright to the original (SFE does not require copyright transfer; no document was signed to that effect). --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 01:55, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

• So you are writing and citing yourself? That’s a separate problem altogether. I will let others address it. Viriditas (talk) 02:04, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

• @Viriditas: The source is reliable, and this has been passed by COIN, where I've asked about this in the past - and was told this conforms to WP:SELFCITE (it has also been discussed in some prior DYK noms (ex. here) and found to be fine). So there's no "problem". --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:14, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

@Viriditas: What @Piotrus: is doing conforms to WP:CITESELF, do you plan on returning to this?--Launchballer 07:19, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

@Launchballer: I can, but I would like additional input on the use of "first" here. Piotrus says this isn't controversial, yet must also be aware that the wording is discouraged on DYK because it often turns out to be wrong. Viriditas (talk) 20:52, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

@Viriditas: To address this I proposed the ALT1, with weaker "one of the first". That is pretty safe. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 00:39, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

Why not avoid the issue altogether by using wording that avoids "first", such as early, etc? We know the problem, so why return to it? It was an early example of science fiction in the Ukrainian-language. Isn't that good enough? Also, there's probably so many more interesting things to say, why return to this? Viriditas (talk) 01:01, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

@Piotrus: The nomination may be marked for closure if a new hook is not proposed. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 10:54, 20 June 2025 (UTC)

@Narutolovehinata5: Perhaps you should caution other editors who don't with ping others? Proposing a new hook is easy, but I was not aware that there was a reply here; my watchlist has long ago ceased to be useful. Anyway, thank you for the ping, new hook is below. Oh yes, ping @Viriditas:, I am not sure if they are actually reviewing this, but... --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 11:19, 20 June 2025 (UTC)

• ALT2: ... that Ukrainian mathematician Mykola Chaikovsky wrote an early Ukrainian science fiction novel and published it in Poland? Source: https://sf-encyclopedia.com/entry/ukraine
• ALT3: ... that Ukrainian mathematician's Mykola Chaikovsky early Ukrainian science fiction novel portrayed independent Ukraine, which is why it was published in Poland and ignored in the USSR? Source: https://sf-encyclopedia.com/entry/ukraine

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: I made a series of copyedits. Please review. Everything checks out. Article is new enough, long enough, sourced, neutral, plagiarism-free, and cited. ALT0 is still using the "first" wording which keeps causing problems for DYK (one was pulled just a few days ago). Change ALT0 wording to "... that Ukrainian mathematician Mykola Chaikovsky wrote one of the earliest Ukrainian-language science fiction novels?" and I would consider passing. First hooks cause too many problems to even consider passing most of them. ALT2 ending with "and published it in Poland" seems a bit confusing for the general reader. A reformulation of ALT3 might work, but it's incredibly complex and convoluted. Any reason why a hook about a radiotelephone isn't being used? That seems to be the most interesting and would probably get a lot of views. Another idea is to present a contrasting hook about a visionary science fiction author who was sentenced to 10 years in a prison labor camp, etc. I think the hooks need some work, otherwise I would pass. Viriditas (talk) 23:47, 20 June 2025 (UTC)

@Piotrus: I copyedited the article, added a photo, and completed the review. Viriditas (talk) 22:20, 21 June 2025 (UTC)

@Viriditas: Thank you. See new hooks below: --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 06:14, 22 June 2025 (UTC)

• ALT2a: ... that shortly after World War I, mathematician Mykola Chaikovsky wrote one of the earliest Ukrainian science fiction novels? Source: https://sf-encyclopedia.com/entry/ukraine
• ALT4: ... that one of the earliest Ukrainian science fiction novels, written shortly after World War I by Mykola Chaikovsky, features solar power and a radiotelephone? Source: https://sf-encyclopedia.com/entry/ukraine
• ALT5: ... that mathematician Mykola Chaikovsky, author of one of the earliest Ukrainian science fiction novels, spent 10 years in a Soviet Gulag? Source: https://sf-encyclopedia.com/entry/ukraine

Approve ALT4, ALT5, and ALT2a. I made copyedits to the hooks for spelling and grammar. Also, no need to repeat Ukrainian twice as his ethnicity or nationality is implied by the type of novel, so I removed the second instance. Viriditas (talk) 21:33, 22 June 2025 (UTC)

Anti-semitism

Zusmanovich notes that Chaikovsky complained in letters to his father of “Jewish dominance” in the USSR. I would need more context to add this to the article but we should seek to incorporate it at some point. Prezbo (talk) 02:33, 15 May 2025 (UTC)