Talk:Morning

Morning does not start at midnight!

Midnight is called as such because, obviously, it occurs at the middle of the night. So, it means that there was some amount of time of NIGHT before the midnight, and has to be some amount of time of NIGHT after it. Morning starts at 4-5 a.m., when most of the working people start waking up. 46.19.41.30 (talk) 13:08, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

... so what time is "one o'clock in the morning"? Dbfirs 12:44, 7 July 2017 (UTC)

Maybe we'd better call it “one eigh em” (1:00 AM). This time can probably be called the small hours --Yejianfei (talk) 00:57, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

I agree, his period midnight to dawn, already has its own names such as postmidnight, wee hours, small hours or early hours.

• https://dictionary.reverso.net/english-definition/postmidnight
• https://www.yourdictionary.com/postmidnight
• https://dictionary.reverso.net/english-definition/wee+hours
• https://dictionary.reverso.net/english-definition/small+hours
• https://dictionary.reverso.net/english-definition/early+hours

The editors insist on the error of classifying the period from midnight to dawn as morning. However, morning is only the period from sunrise to noon. ~2026-16959-29 (talk) 15:22, 17 March 2026 (UTC)

Breakfast

Mention morning meal = (usually) breakfast? Charles Matthews 18:23, 12 May 2004 (UTC)

I think so -- I'll add it and you can fiddle with it if it doesn't flow well. :-) Jwrosenzweig 18:59, 12 May 2004 (UTC)

Also brunch then (elevenses must be obsolescent). I wondered about matins; and then found there is no such article, so perhaps wait.

Charles Matthews 19:19, 12 May 2004 (UTC)

Time?

What time does the 'Morning' starts? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.205.144.15 (talk) 21:26, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

It starts in the morning. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.72.54.14 (talk) 06:57, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Has the article referred to in the section on early/late risers simplified the science? From what I understand, genetics is commonly simplified in the media. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.47.101.40 (talk) 04:02, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

There seems to be no real agreement on when morning actually begins. The Oxford, Cambridge, Webster and American Heritage dictionaries as well as Wikitionary all say it either starts at midnight or at dawn/sunrise (or even whenever wake up). The article should reflect this. JIMp _talk·cont 05:13, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

Maybe there is "morning proper" and "general morning". The former one is either 7:00 AM - 9:00 AM or sunrise to noon, and the latter one is from midnight to noon. -- Yejianfei (talk) 17:03, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

Merge with Morning

Merge- Whenever we want to say "morning" occurs per social convention, it's accepted a day begins at 0000 local time; that the next 12 hours, to 1200, are a.m., ante meridiem, before noon; and only after that is p.m. Morning, morrow, forenoon, matins- there's no real controversy as to when to apply such general terminology. No need of 2 entries... Veryproicelandic (talk) 16:59, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

Agree. ɯɐɔ 💬 10:07, 24 June 2017 (UTC)

Merge with which article? Dbfirs 20:39, 24 June 2017 (UTC)

This discussion seems to have been provoked by the November 2016 merge proposal from Forenoon, which seems uncontentious. Klbrain (talk) 05:51, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

Thanks. Should this discussion be at Talk:Forenoon? Anyway it seems reasonable that the term forenoon should just be a sentence in this article rather than meriting a stand-alone article where it is unlikely to be expanded beyond a stub. The OED defines forenoon as "The portion of the day before noon." Dbfirs 08:31, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

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Over-sectioning of the 'Significance' section

Per WP:OVERSECTION, the 'Significance' section includes three single-paragraph sections that I think should be combined into a single 'Cultural implications' section: 'Greeting', 'Religious observances', and 'Cultural use'. All three are regarding the cultural aspects of Morning. Praemonitus (talk) 14:36, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

Fair call. We could probably stand to lose the "Significance" heading entirely and just have three regular sections. Belbury (talk) 14:24, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

Probably true. The section on genetics could also be expanded by a summary of crepuscular animals. Praemonitus (talk) 15:34, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

Explanations

The reason I made the change to the page is that it doesn't make sense to classify the period from midnight to dawn as "morning" if, during that time, the sky is still dark with stars, which would classify it as part of the night. So I left the meaning of morning as simply the period from sunrise to noon, since morning is part of daytime. ~2026-16846-94 (talk) 12:26, 17 March 2026 (UTC)

This period from midnight to dawn is generally called overnight or postmidnight. ~2026-16846-94 (talk) 12:27, 17 March 2026 (UTC)

Definitions of postmidnight:

• https://dictionary.reverso.net/english-definition/postmidnight
• https://www.yourdictionary.com/postmidnight

This period from midnight to dawn can also be called wee hours, small hours or early hours.

• https://dictionary.reverso.net/english-definition/wee+hours
• https://dictionary.reverso.net/english-definition/small+hours
• https://dictionary.reverso.net/english-definition/early+hours

What I think is fair is to create a separate page for that period, from midnight to dawn. ~2026-16846-94 (talk) 12:33, 17 March 2026 (UTC)

Your edit was

−

'''Morning''' is either the period from [[sunrise]] to [[noon]], or the period from [[midnight]] to noon.

+

'''Morning''' is either the period from [[sunrise]] to [[noon]].

Even corrected to remove "either" (and to edit the next sentence that begins "In the first definition"), the Merriam-Webster source that you deleted uses both definitions:

b) the time from sunrise to noon
c) the time from midnight to noon

Belbury (talk) 12:43, 17 March 2026 (UTC)

I saw it, but let's face it, it doesn't make sense to consider a dark period of the night with a dark sky and stars as "morning". ~2026-16846-94 (talk) 12:46, 17 March 2026 (UTC)

This presumably varies across cultures. It would make sense to me for a person to say that they had been up since "six o'clock this morning" when sunrise was at seven. Belbury (talk) 12:49, 17 March 2026 (UTC)

A light blue sky with sun is daytime. Morning and afternoon are part of daytime.

A dark indigo or black sky with stars is night. It doesn't make sense to include morning here. ~2026-16846-94 (talk) 12:49, 17 March 2026 (UTC)

And as I mentioned, if in the table below morning is classified as part of daytime, which is correct, then it doesn't make sense to say that morning begins at midnight. ~2026-16846-94 (talk) 12:47, 17 March 2026 (UTC)

Please stop your WP:EDITWAR behavior. I've restored the original definition, since it is properly cited. If this continues to be an issue, I suggest finding sources that expand on the "controversy" and actually include it in the article. Thank you. Praemonitus (talk) 14:45, 17 March 2026 (UTC)

Why did you revert my edit? Didn't you read my explanation? Does it make sense to you to consider a dark period of the night as morning? When the template below clearly states that morning is part of the daytime, not the night. I'm not vandalizing, I can be an anonymous user. It just doesn't make sense to call in the morning when the sky is dark. ~2026-16959-29 (talk) 14:59, 17 March 2026 (UTC)

I reverted it per WP:EDITWAR. First you gain consensus for your position, then it gets changed. As of present, I see no such consensus.

As for whether the period starting after midnight should be considered morning, it's defined as such in multiple dictionaries. It's a common convention and thus should be mentioned. The etymology of "morning" comes from the first part of the day, and hence from midnight. The time of sunrise and sunset vary by latitude and time of the year, so it's not clear that's a universally useful definition for morning; it works better for dawn, which is a separate article. Praemonitus (talk) 16:05, 17 March 2026 (UTC)

You Wikipedians are very authoritarian; you don't analyze edits and unnecessarily revert correct edits. I'm suggesting removing the meaning "midnight to noon" to avoid contradiction with the template below, which classifies morning as part of daytime, as I mentioned in the comment below. The sky is dark when it's midnight. ~2026-17209-99 (talk) 00:28, 19 March 2026 (UTC)

Yes, some of us are sticklers for Wikipedia policy. That's not a negative. What you're suggesting is alternative terminology for morning, but that in no way negates the currently cited information. Please provide a source that authoritatively denies that "midnight to noon" is an invalid definition of morning. By that I mean a source with more weight than Merriam-Webster. Thanks. If you instead want to introduce other cited terminology into the article body, that could be a useful addition. The lead should be a summary of the body anyway. Praemonitus (talk) 04:06, 19 March 2026 (UTC)

I have already submitted sources proving that this period from midnight to dawn has its own name, and as I suggested, create a separate page for this dark period before dawn.

Analyzing the dictionary definition of "morning" as the period from midnight to noon, I believe it's being used synonymously with "ante meridiem," which I think would be fair to create a separate page for this context, "Morning (counting hours)."

And the Morning page would only contain the definition of being from sunrise to noon, to coincide with the template that classifies it as part of daytime. ~2026-17360-48 (talk) 13:13, 19 March 2026 (UTC)

Words can have more than one definition. All your sources appear to demonstrate is one term for that period. Praemonitus (talk) 13:45, 19 March 2026 (UTC)

We aren't here to publish an arbitrary Wikipedia user's personal ideas about what makes sense but about what is, as conveyed by reliable sources. The word is used in a variety of ways. And people certainly do refer to 3 AM as "three in the morning". Largoplazo (talk) 00:27, 18 March 2026 (UTC)

You better respect me, I'm not just "any user" of Wikipedia. And the change I'm proposing isn't my personal opinion; it's simply to avoid contradiction with the template below, which correctly classifies morning as part of daytime and midnight as the time when the sky is dark. ~2026-17209-99 (talk) 00:26, 19 March 2026 (UTC)

I will respectfully disagree by noting that the template is unsourced. Wikipedia is not a reliable source for Wikipedia; nor is your opinion or mine a reliable or authoritative source. Praemonitus (talk) 04:13, 19 March 2026 (UTC)

Readers know that morning and afternoon are part of daytime, so why would something so obvious need sources? ~2026-17360-48 (talk) 13:09, 19 March 2026 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Reliable sources. The point is apparently controversial, per this discussion. Hence reliable sources are required. Praemonitus (talk) 13:45, 19 March 2026 (UTC)