Talk:Montreal

Map showing Montreal in red

The map that shows the outline of Montreal is a bit misleading. When I first looked at it, I assumed the red area was all land. In fact, there are waterways running through it that I couldn't see until I zoomed into it. This made it very hard to identify Île Bizard or any other islands in the city, which is what I was looking for. A better map, which distinguishes between water and land, both in and out of the city, would be useful. I would do this myself, but I don't have the tools, don't know what tools would work, and don't know where I would get a starting-map. —MiguelMunoz (talk) 01:57, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

2020 update to montage

plenty of discussions were made here with regards to the montage but they are all dated. Someone updated it with an image that was on the wikicommons, but someone deleted it without reason. We need to update the montage or at the very least the first picture of the skyline, as it is very outdated. A new one exists on the wikicommons, so why are we not using that?

132.205.236.34 (talk) 17:28, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

I agree. I was thinking the montage could look something like this:

File:Canada-3692862 1920 (1).jpg

File:Le Stade olympique de Montréal.jpg

File:Old Port Skyline Montréal - EN Credit © Alexandre Choquette Tourisme Montréal.jpg

- 𝙄𝙠𝙤𝙣21 ❯❯❯ talk 06:01, 18 March 2020 (UTC)

Montreal is the occitan translation of "Mont Royal".

The actual name of the city doesn't come from french but from occitan language. One of Cartier's officers, was precisely coming from Montreal in southern France. This is much more probable than an hypothetic italian origin. Montreal (and the reversed Réalmont) is a common toponym in southern France and unlike what is written in the article (although in 16th-century French the forms réal and royal were used interchangeably) in 16th century french Réal and Royal weren't interchangeable (hence Cartier speaking about the Mont Royal at first, renamed then by his fellow officer in his familial occitan form... I'll add that the first written occurency of Montreal in that form come from a gentilhomme from southern France Matieu Sokolovic (talk) 12:30, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

Pushpin location wrong

Pushpin location is showing Montreal being north of Rochester, NY and closer to Toronto. Montreal is actually north of Plattsburgh, NY and Lake Champlain. Push pin coordinates need to be fixed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.248.72.227 (talk) 05:41, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

"T" in French?

Knowing next to nothing about Canadian French, a passage in the article Brigade-de-cuisine (John McPhee, in The New Yorker 1979 Feb. 19) made me curious enough to check this page's IPA:

Otto once tried to correct a captain’s pronunciation of “Montrachet.” He said, “Both ‘t’s are silent.”

The captain said, “No. One pronounces the first ‘t.’ ”

“Are you French-Canadian?” said Otto.

Was (the pseudonymous) Otto being facetious about canadiens or is there a syllable boundary issue in Montrachet? Sparafucil (talk) 01:21, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Old Port Skyline Montréal - EN Credit © Alexandre Choquette Tourisme Montréal.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 03:04, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

Sustainability

I am adding a sustainability section. If anyone wishes to participate or help clean up and streamline other sections there is a discussion at the Canadian Wikipedians noticeboard regarding this project. It is a multi-city effort where we will be doing the same for other cities in Canada. TheKevlar 20:25, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

Sustainability is not a section expected at community articles according to WP:CCSG. If you want to start doing this across Canadian communities, I suggest you start a discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Canadian communities/Structure guideline and place a notice of said discussion here, at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Canadian communities, and at Wikipedia talk:Canadian Wikipedians' notice board to catch a wider audience. Cheers, Hwy43 (talk) 07:58, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

Pronunciation

Is this a joke? A user with no record of previously using this site randomly reverted my edit, citing a Wikipedia guideline that appears to exist only in his or her own imagination, and I am now supposed to waste my time reaching consensus? Is this meant to discourage occasional editors, who simply want to help out every now and then? Considering I had cited two very reliable sources, and no valid point had been made made to undermine my rationale, why on earth did you choose to revert my edit once again instead of, for instance, leaving it be until the hypothetical emergence of a cogent argument to question its soundness?

I apologise if I sometimes end up making personal attacks, but showing absolutely no respect for my time and the apparent lack of realisation that on the other side of the screen is a fellow human, from whose life you deduct with so little remorse, while not being a justification for my improper conduct, is the main reason behind it – and perhaps the foremost incentive for me to quit editing.

Since so far no case has been made whatsoever for retaining the current version of the article, I kindly appeal to @Nardog – a well respected editor – to help us resolve this issue. Maciuf (talk) 15:41, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

If you ask any Anglo-Montrealer, they will tell you that the “MUN” pronunciation is preferred, as you cited. Inputting the UK pronunciation will only confuse people. For many other articles regarding geographical locations, the correct, local pronunciation is provided so that if someone unfamiliar with the topic comes across the article, they will pronounce it correctly. I sincerely apologize if I offended you in any way, and that was in no way my intention. However, as a native of Montreal, I find it concerning that non-Montrealers might be inclined to pronounce the name of my home incorrectly. Thank you for your time.

Beeflermol (talk) 16:15, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

'Ask any Anglo-Montrealer' is not considered a reliable source. Nevertheless, if you haven't noticed, I did consider your input. I found a source (perhaps not of first-class reliability but fair enough) to support your claim and mentioned that most locals use the MUN pronunciation in a follow-up edit. The reason I put MUN before MON is exactly because it is the dominant local pronunciation and is also preferred by most Canadians. However, the alternative is listed in The Canadian Oxford Dictionary, and this article seems to suggest that Montrealers themselves use all sorts of variant pronunciations. I hope that clears things up a bit. Maciuf (talk) 17:44, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

@Maciuf, I'm afraid some of what you write is wrong, in tone as well as in content, but you also make relevant points. First, yes indeed, you are "supposed to waste your time reaching consensus". That applies to all of us. Second, no, the policy against edit warring does not exist "only in my imagination"; it is core policy of Wikipedia you might read here WP:EW. Third, when you are the one introducing a change that is reverted (by user Beeflermol in this case), the onus is on you to start the discussion. Fourth, in the content matter I am inclined to agree with you and would support your edit. I have read the concern by user Beeflermol above, but at the very least it would have to be sourced. I would support reinstating user Maciuf's version, which is properly sourced. Last but not least, to user Maciuf, I can understand your frustration that sometimes we make good and factual edits and are reverted. It happens to us all, whether we like it or not. Alas, being WP:RIGHT is not always enough on WP; when there is dispute, a consensus must be reached. That is why I restored the stable version (temporarily, waiting for a consensus) even though my own preference is for your version. Jeppiz (talk) 16:20, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

I regret my irascibility. However, the 'Wikipedia guideline existing only in one's imagination' was a reference to Beeflermol's justification for reverting my edit, not WP:EW. And I simply do not feel any sensible line of reasoning has yet been put forth for me to argue against, hence my scepticism towards reaching consensus where there do not seem to be proper grounds for dispute. Thank you for your reply. Maciuf (talk) 17:21, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

As an American-and-now-Anglo-Montrealer, to be fair, (anecdotally) the second pronunciation is quite common outside of Montreal generally (not just in the UK). I don't have access to the Canadian Oxford reference , could someone quote from there? (The Matador cite, in my opinion, is not nearly strong enough and anyway only has passing mention of this.)

We need to lean on RS, not anecdotes, so... let's! What do the sources say? SiliconRed (he/him • talk) 01:10, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

You ask what the reliable sources say. According to CEPD, it is UK: /mɒntriˈɔːl/, US: /mɒntriˈɔːl, mʌn-/, and you will find that this aligns perfectly with what you may find in British and American dictionaries respectively. But The Canadian Oxford Dictionary places /mʌn-/ before /mɒn-/, and I believe this practice ought to be followed within the article as concerning a Canadian city and – although I could not find a source of desired reliability to buttress that claim – it is almost certain that /mʌn-/ is indeed the local pronunciation. However, I still find it worthwhile to remark (within a footnote) on the infrequency of this variant in British English. Would you approve of the following revision of the opening paragraph? Maciuf (talk) 18:14, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

Montreal (/ˌmʌntriˈɔːl/ ^ⓘ MUN-tree-AWL or /ˌmɒn-/ MON-; officially Montréal, French: [mɔ̃ʁeal] ^ⓘ) is...

The following is more of a question than a critique. I am aware that you acknowledge the correct probounciafiom being “MUN”. So, my question is, Why? What is the purpose of putting the incorrect pronunciation? What good does it do, and who is it helping? All it would do is perpetuate the ever long mispronunciation of the city. Thank you for taking the time to read this.

Beeflermol (talk) 18:29, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

I would also like to address the Montreal Gazette article you mentioned. Yes, it does provide differing pronunciation, but those are by Montrealers of other ethnic groups whose ancestors spoke other languages. This Wikipedia article should only concern the English pronunciation (due to the article being written in English) and the French pronunciation (due to it being an official language of the city, province, and country). Thank you for your time.

Beeflermol (talk) 18:35, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

I would hesitate to make decisions here based on perception of "correct" and "incorrect" as a function of where people who pronounce things are from -- if there are two documented, common English pronunciations, I agree with the proposal to include both and add a note for "MON-". However I would amend the proposal as follows and drop the explicit UK reference; WP:SURPRISE tells us that the UK is not local, so it makes sense that UK people don't often say "MUN-":

Montreal (/ˌmʌntriˈɔːl/ ^ⓘ MUN-tree-AWL or /ˌmɒn-/ MON-; officially Montréal, French: [mɔ̃ʁeal] ^ⓘ) is...

As mentioned above I would advise against the Matador cite for this, but overall I do agree with the approach to include both. (Again it'd be great if someone with access to the Canadian Oxford cite could quote from there, I can't WP:VERIFY that cite 😊). SiliconRed (he/him • talk) 19:49, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

Yes, your version seems preferable. Maciuf (talk) 19:52, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

The problem is I cannot find a good source which would state explicitly that MUN- is most common among locals. I do not have access to COD, but pronunciations are displayed on the website for free. Maciuf (talk) 19:55, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

Agreed 100% -- I would want good RS which explicitly has wording similar to the "local" above (Matador does this but really is not good enough for this use, it's passing mention). We shouldn't offer two pronunciations without an explanation, and without a good RS that has such explanation, I'd err on the side of waiting for one to be published before making this change. Best we have is this Gazette article but it does not editorialize which "locals" specifically use more commonly. SiliconRed (he/him • talk) 20:02, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

But you shouldn't exclude the MON- pronunciation just because you have no reliable sources to buttress the content of the footnote. The problem is that – being addressed to the general public – most sources I could find which discuss the issue refer to the MUN- pronunciation as simply correct instead of local. Maciuf (talk) 17:32, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

Possibly worth noting that MUN- being the local pronunciation is mentioned in List of shibboleths — but it's not cited there either! RacingThoughts (talk) 18:55, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

Notes

References

Miss French pronounciation of Montréal at the begining of the text.

^ The title say it all 176.161.226.196 (talk) 16:45, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

The title say it all - Sorry, it doesn't. It's not even a complete sentence. Please elaborate. — W.andrea (talk) 16:54, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

Who is "Miss French"? Does she have a first name? Indefatigable (talk) 17:23, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

Missing Political Data

The results of the 2022 Quebec provincial election are not included in the table at the end of the "Government" section. Fornico (talk) 14:47, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Two Languages, Two Montreals

I was comparing the English and French Wikipedia articles on Montreal, and I noticed something odd: they’re not the same.

The English version talks more about Montreal’s economy, international relations, and English-speaking institutions. Meanwhile, the French version goes deeper into local governance, historical events (like the 1701 Great Peace of Montreal), and the city’s cultural identity—especially from a Francophone perspective.

It feels like each article has valuable information that’s missing from the other. Wouldn’t it make sense to merge and sync the missing content so both versions offer the full picture of the city, just in different languages?

My question is: Can someone who understands Wikipedia editing or template/coding structure please help combine both articles—so all the information from both is preserved and accessible in each language version?

It seems like a meaningful project for bilingual editors or anyone who wants to improve Wikipedia’s coverage of one of Canada’s most important cities. Thoughts? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.96.224.114 (talk) 15:46, 27 May 2025 (UTC)

Could you be more specific? What information from the French article is missing from the English article?

the French version goes deeper into local governance, historical events (like the 1701 Great Peace of Montreal), and the city’s cultural identity

Are you aware of the sub-articles History of Montreal and Culture of Montreal and the articles Montreal City Council and Great Peace of Montreal?

especially from a Francophone perspective

That could be a result of the language barrier, for sure. Like say, you might have monolingual anglophones editing this article and they can only use English-language sources that are more likely to cover topics that concern anglophones (like The Gazette).

— W.andrea (talk) 03:11, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

Requested move 25 July 2025

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Jeffrey34555 (talk) 22:30, 31 July 2025 (UTC)

---

Montreal → MontréalMontréal – The city's name is Montréal not Montreal, even in English. Officially and unofficially, the version with a diacritic mark is the correct name of the city. I understand that English rarely has diacritical marks but this is one of the main examples people cite alongside Café. While both versions exist inside and outside the city, the official and more correct name should be used. GlowingLava (talk) 08:36, 25 July 2025 (UTC)

• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME, eg here on CBC.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 09:10, 25 July 2025 (UTC)

  Respectfully disagree with it being the common name. I see Montréal more often in personal writings even when I know the writer isn't fluent in french. GlowingLava (talk) 09:41, 25 July 2025 (UTC)

  Examples? For comparison, if you look at the English-language sources on the article, I'm not seeing the accented form except in official government sources. — W.andrea (talk) 18:17, 27 July 2025 (UTC)

  If they're not fluent in French, I doubt they use accents at all in anything, including say "Francois" or "hopital" or "canape" or "nee" --- 65.93.183.181 (talk) 19:20, 28 July 2025 (UTC)

  Oppose I'm not sure where you live, but I do not see Americans knowing how to use the accent acute. I see things like "The Élité Beauty Salon," if I see diacritical marks at all.

  I've seen western Canadians know how to use it but not do so.

  • Encyclopedia Britannica does not use the accent.
  • National Geographic does not use it.
  • Neither does the Council of Europe.
  • Nor does the Canadian Encyclopedia.
  • Not even the Canadian Broadcasting Company uses it. Really. They don't.

  Oona Wikiwalker (talk) 06:59, 31 July 2025 (UTC)

• Oppose unless someone fluent in French and more reliant from official government sources, "Montreal" (without diacritic) is a WP:COMMONNAME and most preferred spelling in English and most foreign languages. Examples where media organizations use "Montreal" without diacritic is CBC, The Globe and Mail, Global News, CTV News, The Star. 2404:8000:1037:38A:1D44:6AE:CDCE:C48C (talk) 10:01, 25 July 2025 (UTC)
• Oppose Per others. Does not seem like the common name. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 11:15, 25 July 2025 (UTC)
• Oppose. WP:COMMONNAME is preferred over WP:OFFICIALNAMES: the name commonly used in a significant majority of independent, reliable, English-language sources. And this rule is also applied to WP:DIACRITICS: when deciding between versions of a word that differ in the use or non-use of modified letters, follow the general usage in reliable sources that are written in the English language. Unless a significant number of Canadian English reliable sources start using diacritic mark, keep the status quo. Zzyzx11 (talk) 15:15, 25 July 2025 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. OP cites no sources to support the proposed title. 162 etc. (talk) 17:39, 25 July 2025 (UTC)

  Read closer, There's a source and it's mentioned in the linked article. GlowingLava (talk) 06:14, 26 July 2025 (UTC)

  Upon further review, the proposal does indeed link the Geographical Names Board of Canada which indicates the official name in English is "Montréal". My opposition remains. 162 etc. (talk) 19:12, 26 July 2025 (UTC)

• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME, we don't use WP:OFFICIALNAMES just because they're official and definitely not for "correct[ness]" on the command of a government. No evidence of a change in common name given, while Ngrams backs the current. DankJae 19:25, 25 July 2025 (UTC)
• Oppose no evidence that anything has changed since Talk:Montreal/Archive 6#Requested move 10 September 2017.--67.70.101.124 (talk) 06:24, 26 July 2025 (UTC)
• Oppose. I agree with other commenters: we don't necessarily use the official name on Wikipedia, we use the common name, i.e. the name commonly used by independent, reliable, English-language sources, and if you look at the list of sources on the article, I don't see any that use the accented form, except official government sources, which are arguably not independent. — W.andrea (talk) 18:20, 27 July 2025 (UTC)
• Oppose When Montreal was founded, French did not use accents yet, much as Russian still doesn't use accents even academics do. WP:UE/WP:UCN even if the Quebec government is outlawing all forms of English -- 65.93.183.181 (talk) 19:18, 28 July 2025 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Montreal Climate

So as my edits got removed I'm pulling receipts. Montreal's climate is no longer dfb, it is a clear dfa. I have pulled data from Environment Canada. Not a single year since 2015 was July below the necessary 22-degree daily average required for the hot-summer humid continental climate criterion. June and August also meet this criterion most years. Please fix the climate type. Montreal is NOT a warm-summer type. Thank you!

Montreal Monthly Average Temperatures (°C)

Year	June (°C)	July (°C)	August (°C)
2015	20.3	22.5	22.8
2016	22.4	22.8	21.6
2017	22.8	22.8	21.8
2018	21.6	22.2	21.6
2019	21.6	22.8	22.2
2020	22.2	22.8	22.2
2021	22.2	22.8	22.2
2022	22.2	22.8	22.2
2023	22.2	22.8	22.2

69.157.167.32 (talk) 01:57, 10 August 2025 (UTC)

You're 216.46.26.90? (edits for reference.) Please provide a source, since the existing sources say Dfb. We don't want your personal analysis, though there may be some wiggle room; I don't know climatology. — W.andrea (talk) 02:26, 10 August 2025 (UTC)

I am slightly confused. Available data from Environment Canada is not a personal analysis of mine. To meet criteria for a hot-summer humid continental climate, one summer month must have a daily mean of 22°C, which Montreal consistently reaches every year, and usually for 2 months a year. Moreover, I have a source from McGill University (that is almost 20 years old) which states that Montreal is a dfa climate (hot-summer continental climate): https://www.mcgill.ca/urbanplanning/files/urbanplanning/CCAPUHIFinalReport-2007.pdf

And I am the same person. I just made an account :D Thank you! Louisphilippeq (talk) 21:33, 8 November 2025 (UTC)

Page 10 of the document ^^ Please let me know if I can proceed with an edit @W.andrea, thank you! Louisphilippeq (talk) 21:35, 8 November 2025 (UTC)

Sure, go ahead :)

Like I said, I don't know climatology, but where a document from McGill says it, that's fine by me.

BTW, just to clarify one thing: Available data from Environment Canada is not a personal analysis of mine. Data is not analysis. Analysis of data is exactly what we don't want, but like I was saying before, if this categorization is totally unambiguous, it should be fine. This is just for your future reference.

Cheers — W.andrea (talk) 22:47, 12 November 2025 (UTC)

Thanks! I'm on it and will add the source :) I remember the page used to say hot-summer continental humid climate, but it got removed at some point. Louisphilippeq (talk) 22:48, 12 November 2025 (UTC)

2024 population estimate

I've removed this number from the infobox, as there is no way that Montreal proper gained 450,000 new residents in just three years. The 2-million-plus figure cited in the source (Province of Quebec) is certainly not a direct comparison to, or update of, the official Canadian census of 2021; the 2024 number obviously covers a different geographical area. This is basic statistics. Mason.Jones (talk) 20:19, 20 August 2025 (UTC)

Link to Canada page

Maybe I missed it, but in the first several sections, I do not see a link to the Wiki Canada page. ~2026-57543-1 (talk) 21:07, 26 January 2026 (UTC)

It should have been linked in the first sentence. Fixed! Thanks for pointing that out :) — W.andrea (talk) 22:28, 26 January 2026 (UTC)

Oh and the infobox too. Fixed. — W.andrea (talk) 22:30, 26 January 2026 (UTC)

It should follow the instructions at Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Linking#What generally should not be linked CambridgeBayWeather (#1 deranged), Uqaqtuq (talk), Huliva 21:11, 28 January 2026 (UTC)

Oops, I wasn't aware of that guideline. What does it mean "major examples"? — W.andrea (talk) 22:50, 28 January 2026 (UTC)

Not absolutely sure but it does say (bold added by me)

"In addition, major examples of the following categories should generally not be linked:

• Countries (e.g., Brazil/Brazilian, Canada/Canadian, China/Chinese)"

I've seen things like Saskatchewan or New South Wales unlinked but Nunavut and Northern Territory linked. I don't think that any of those four a major examples unless you live in that country. CambridgeBayWeather (#1 deranged), Uqaqtuq (talk), Huliva 23:03, 28 January 2026 (UTC)

OK, I think I get it. So "major" is like, countries the average person would know, while "minor" is lesser-known countries like, say, Equatorial Guinea or Latvia. — W.andrea (talk) 23:12, 28 January 2026 (UTC)

That sounds right. It's hard to keep up with the WP:MOS sometimes. CambridgeBayWeather (#1 deranged), Uqaqtuq (talk), Huliva 23:19, 28 January 2026 (UTC)

The Town of Mount Royal

The Town of Mount Royal is NOT an anglophone enclave , the first spoken language in the town is French at 43% then English at 27% . ~2026-14129-54 (talk) 22:41, 4 March 2026 (UTC)

Thanks for catching that! I fixed it :) — W.andrea (talk) 00:25, 5 March 2026 (UTC)

Montréal name is Montréal (with an accent)

Montréal has the same name in French and in English. Only five Canadian cities have a different name in French and English. Montréal is not one of those cities. ~2026-16709-81 (talk) 23:27, 16 March 2026 (UTC)

Are you proposing a change to the article? If you want to propose a move (rename), that's already been discussed under § Requested move 25 July 2025. — W.andrea (talk) 23:32, 16 March 2026 (UTC)

References

Crime Section

The crime section makes it sound like it's dangerous. Yes, there have been increases (and decreases) compared to other years. But it should be clearly said that Montreal is the safest city in North America behind Ottawa and Quebec City; it's the safest big city in North America ~2026-38401-54 (talk) 06:13, 6 July 2026 (UTC)