Talk:Ming Zheng

Title of article - Zheng clique or Ming Dynasty Zheng family?

Hello all,

Over at zh:明鄭 it's just 明 + 鄭 with no indication that it was a "clique".

So: what do the English language references call this?

澳洲彼得 aka Shirt58 (talk) 🦘 11:26, 17 December 2025 (UTC)

@Shirt58 Good question. Friendly pings to editors who recently tried to move this: @Pktlaurence, @Zackmann08 _{Piotrus at Hanyang| reply here} 04:08, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

I have no idea here. This is not my area of expertise. I will note that this page was located at Ming Dynasty Zheng family before Pktlaurence moved it, with no explanation or discussion. I tried to revert it for lack of explanation or discussion, but they kept reverting me so I just walked away to avoid edit warring. Someone other than myself who has actual knowledge of this subject area, should decide what a good page title is. If a page mover is required, feel free to ping me once CONSENSUS is reached and I will move it. Zackmann (^{Talk to me}/_{What I been doing}) 04:32, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

Noting that my Chinese is very limited - basically I can read place names, peoples' names and very simple phrases and sentences - the title of the corresponding zp.wp article is simply "Ming" (as in the dynasty) and "Zheng" (as in the family name). The context here is in this post back on 16 Dec 2025. So let's discuss it. Do the Chinese language references refer to it as a clique or as a more organised group? And what do the English language references call the group? 澳洲彼得 aka Shirt58 (talk) 🦘 09:11, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

1. "明鄭"貿易概況初探 (The Trade Organization and General Situation of the "Ming Cheng")
2. "明鄭時期"的地緣政治密碼析論 (The Analysis of Geo-political Code in "Zheng's Dynasty")
3. "明鄭時期"臺灣遺民詩中的陶淵明隱逸文化－以沈光文、徐孚遠、鄭經為例 (A Study of Seclusion Images from Tao Yuanming in Taiwan during the "Ming-Zheng Dynasty"-A Case Study of Shen Kuang-Wen, Xu Fu-Yuan, Zheng-Jing)
4. 近50年來（1960～2016）「"明鄭"至戰後初期臺灣儒學」研究之回顧與展望 (The Retrospect and Prospect on the Study of Taiwanese Confucianism from "Ming Zheng" to Early Postwar Period in the Past Fifty Years(1960～2016))
5. "明鄭"亡後無中國 (No China After the Demise of the "Kingdom of Tungning")

@Hanyangprofessor2@Shirt58@Zackmann08

I used keywords from zh.wikipedia.org and searched them on site:airitilibrary.com, which records academic journal materials. I then used the term “明鄭” found there as a keyword for further queries. This produced the results shown above. When referring to 明鄭 itself, it is often rendered as “Ming Zheng.” When referring to the historical period, it is commonly translated as “Ming-Zheng Dynasty” or “Zheng's Dynasty.”

There may be other usages as well, such as “Kingdom of Tungning,” as listed above. However, I have not been able to find any journal sources supporting the expression “Zheng clique.” At least in searches limited to site:airitilibrary.com, no such usage appears in the journal literature.

I would not recommend continuing to use the term “Zheng clique.” At least in an academic context, this expression appears to lack any supporting sources and would constitute original research. Rastinition (talk) 14:32, 6 March 2026 (UTC)

@Hanyangprofessor2@Shirt58@Zackmann08

If referring to a state or regime, “Kingdom of Tungning” is more appropriate, though a purely phonetic rendering like “Ming Zheng” is also acceptable. If you believe the entry is introducing a state or regime, you should consider using “Kingdom of Tungning.” If it is unclear what the entry describes, “Ming Zheng” is a safer choice. I understand you may not be familiar with languages other than English, but you should be able to judge the content of the entry. The remaining task is to select the most suitable title from the relatively accurate options. Rastinition (talk) 14:43, 6 March 2026 (UTC)

Just noting that I read this, but my knowledge of Chinese history or language is very limited, so I cannot comment usefully. My interest is limited to the fact that this article was created (translated from zh wiki) as an extra credit assignment by a student I was supervising a while back. _{Piotrus at Hanyang| reply here} 00:42, 7 March 2026 (UTC)

Just a comment. This is the way to discuss things. Discussion was started as a result of this. 澳洲彼得 aka Shirt58 (talk) 🦘 08:35, 7 March 2026 (UTC)

If you need to take formal action against that user in future, you may consider using SPI or AIV; I'll leave that decision to your judgment. I will only supply a few brief links and a short summary of the SPI I opened on zh.wikipedia.org.

Link:

• Special:diff/1337731066 / Special:diff/1337748792 These two links show that he returns to pages where he was previously active using different accounts.
• meta:Special:diff/30185661 This link shows that an SPI investigation confirmed that he used sockpuppets.
• zh:Category:Pktlaurence的維基用戶分身

Short summary:

• There are several observations suggesting a pattern of related accounts. Many usernames share the “Aly” element (for example, Aly0411, Alyplscomeback, LarryAly, and Missualy). Past investigations indicate a tendency to use multiple accounts or IPs, with similar writing styles and editing behaviors across them, including instances of edit warring and page moves. These accounts frequently make similar edits—mainly adjusting wording or phrasing and modifying article titles and lead sections—and they tend to focus on overlapping topics such as Hong Kong, Xinjiang, Tibet,Taiwan, history, and military affairs. It may also be the case that he contends he was merely rewriting and improving content based on what was already on Wikipedia and therefore blames previous editors for any inaccuracies. Additionally, he appears to place little emphasis on factual verification and is strongly attached to his preferred wording; when reliable sources are offered to correct issues, he often regards the effort to provide citations as merely piling up unnecessary information. (When he editing on en.wikipedia.org, I suspect he leverages his greater familiarity with his preferred topics—relative to non–East Asian editors—to insert original research or fringe theories that are difficult for others to detect.)

Rastinition (talk) 11:28, 7 March 2026 (UTC)