Talk:Matthew Vickers

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. You can locate your hook here. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Earth605 talk 16:33, 25 October 2025 (UTC)

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• ... that Matthew Vickers, who specialised in Italian opera, made his debut in Italy singing in the French opera Carmen?
• ALT1: ... that Matthew Vickers, who specialised in Italian opera, made his debut in Italy singing in French?

• Source: Vickers' specialised in Italian singing style (bel canto) operascout profile His opera resume shows almost exclusively Italian opera till he went to Italy, with the exceptions one production of Carmen (French) and one of Susannah (English). resume In an interview in Italy, he noted how that was funny to him. video interview, c. 2 min..

• • Reviewed:
  • Comment: I recently created the articles about Vickers on de.wikipedia and en.wikipedia, and learned that he is a specialist in Italian operas, who ironically sang Bizet's French opera Carmen as his first opera in Europe, in Italy of all places. His first performance in Germany was also in French, in Offenbach's Les contes d'Hoffmann, but I thought that singing French in Italy would be a better hook, without mentioning the second time that happened. (He actually did sing in Italian in Italy just days after his debut in French!)

Created by Suchfaktor (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

Suchfaktor (talk) 16:32, 9 September 2025 (UTC).

• The article was converted from a redirect within seven days of creation and also meets the length requirements. Most of the article is properly sourced, although the "Video" and "Awards" sections need a reference. As the nominator has no prior nominations, no QPQ is needed here. The hook is cited inline and verified; however, given how Carmen is one of the world's most famous operas, I do not see how him performing Carmen is by itself interesting to a broad audience, so a different hook angle may be needed here. As this is an opera article, I am requesting help from 4meter4 regarding possible hook suggestions, as well as to give advice to the nominator regarding DYK. I also see that the nominator is largely inactive on the English Wikipedia and has not edited since the 10th, so if they are unable to return, I am also inviting 4meter4 to adopt the nomination. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 08:51, 17 September 2025 (UTC)

@Narutolovehinata5: I think you might have missed the point of the hook. The singer specializes in the Italian language repertory and it was therefore ironic that his stage debut in Italy was not in an Italian language opera but in a French language one. That's what the nominator I think was trying to get at. Note that language is not the only thing that separates these operas because different approaches to singing and different styles and performance traditions developed in each country, so it isn't just a matter of singing in a different language. One has to learn the diverging styles and performance tradition associated with the rep as well. That said, it's not unusual for opera singers to specialize in a certain repertory (ie French opera, Italian opera, Russian opera, Czech opera, German opera, etc.) but on occasion go outside that into another area of opera. Most singers won't stay entirely in a single repertoire during their career; partly because a more diverse repertoire keeps them employed, and partly because singers are often expected to tackle roles of varying kinds if they are a member of a repertory company. I wouldn't find this fact particularly unusual or surprising for that reason, and the subtlety of the hook might be missed. I'll give it a read and see if something else might be better. Best.4meter4 (talk) 14:13, 17 September 2025 (UTC)

@4meter4: I was aware of that, the thought I had was that the language did not really matter because, as far as I am aware, it is common for opera performers to specialize in multiple operas of different origins. The context you gave might still be too specialist regardless, so this is probably not the best angle to go with anyway. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 14:17, 17 September 2025 (UTC)

@Narutolovehinata5: I think for people ignorant of opera (which is most people) they would find it surprising that someone known for singing in Italian would perform in French instead in Italy. It's the informed people like you and me that don't find it interesting. One would have to know opera singers are tackling different language rep routinely to find it boring. I'd be ok with this running for that reason since this is a DYK newbie if we can't come up with something better. Perhaps a covid-19 pandemic hook from the 75th anniversary of Opera Delaware? That's the only unusual thing that is really sticking out to me.4meter4 (talk) 14:25, 17 September 2025 (UTC)

Honestly I'm not really a fan of COVID hooks as I feel like that's a horse that's been beaten to death on DYK. Perhaps you could find more information about him that could be added to the article? Maybe Viriditas also has some other ideas on possible hooks. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 14:38, 17 September 2025 (UTC)

@Narutolovehinata5 Honestly, I don't think we are going to do better. He's your typical principal tenor performing in the standard opera repertoire at respectable mainly second tier opera houses in Europe. There's nothing really unusual about his work, and he isn't a top star in the big houses but he is singing major roles in the next step down theaters. The coverage of him is largely in the context of reviews of individual operas. Only one of the sources is specifically about him and his career, and it is behind a paywall which I can't access. I kind of doubt there is going to be anything there but anything is possible. Respectfully, I think we've highlighted the only two possibilities in this discussion. I do think you should weigh the need to support a first time nominator in the decision process, and not be too picky/demanding. It's not like this is a routine contributor throwing up the same problematic hooks (no name dropping required). We can run another covid hook; particularly in support of a first time nominator.4meter4 (talk) 15:08, 17 September 2025 (UTC)

I mean if there's coverage out there about his personal life that could be added to the article. If there really isn't anything more we can do, we could discuss the COVID angle depending on how it's worded, and then present ALT0 and that ALT1 to further discussion by other editors to see their DYKINT compliance. I'm also still waiting for Viriditas to provide advice given they've been helpful in previous opera nominations. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 23:14, 17 September 2025 (UTC)

Thank you for taking the time to consider my nomination! I found it amusing that a tenor who focused on Italian repertoire made his debut in Italy singing in French, and I won't be upset if that's not enough for a DYK. I found additional material about Vickers' life (especially during the pandemic) in video interviews and social media that would make for a very interesting article, but due to the nature of the sources, I did not use that. I added references to the Video and Awards sections now. They had been in the de.wikipedia article, I must have missed them. Perhaps a shorter version of the hook would be better to take the focus off Carmen, that's not the funny part after all – "DYK ... that Matthew Vickers, who specialised in Italian opera, made his debut in Italy singing in French?" Suchfaktor (talk) 06:26, 18 September 2025 (UTC)

I would be okay with that. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 02:28, 19 September 2025 (UTC)

Great, then let's use Alt 1! (I saw that variations are called Alt, so I changed that above.) Suchfaktor (talk) 05:18, 19 September 2025 (UTC)

I was ready to approve ALT1, however, the article and the hook don't exactly match. The article says he made his debut in a French opera, but the hook says he debuted in [the] French [language]. My knowledge of opera is admittedly limited so I don't know if it is common for Italian or French operas to be performed in other languages, but the wording is ambiguous enough that a minor reword may be needed here. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 05:15, 25 September 2025 (UTC)

@Narutolovehinata5: Thanks for pointing that out! I didn't know there was an Italian version of Carmen, but you're right, there is. I've changed the sentence to make it clear that it was actually performed in the original French, which fortunately is mentioned in the sources I cited. Suchfaktor (talk) 18:29, 26 September 2025 (UTC)

Thank you for the edit. However, reference 12 (which is about Carmen) does not seem to outright say that he performed the role in French. Does he say so in reference 11 (the YouTube link)? If so, could you please provide a timestamp to the relevant part? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 02:31, 2 October 2025 (UTC)

@Narutolovehinata5:Right, it's implied in Reference 12. The last sentence under the Carmen picture on the left says "In lingua originale con sopratitoli in italiano e in inglese" [In original language with surtitles in Italian and in English], and the original language of Carmen is French. However, in Reference 11, after about 41 seconds, Vickers says: "[...]I will make my debut in Italy in French." I can look for another reference if that's not enough; maybe I'll find a review. Suchfaktor (talk) 15:39, 2 October 2025 (UTC)

@Suchfaktor and Narutolovehinata5: What else needs doing here?--Launchballer 21:08, 11 October 2025 (UTC)

@Launchballer:I have added the time to the reference where Vickers himself stated that it was his debut in Italy and in French, it seems to be the best source. There are several reviews of the performance online, but none of them mentioned that it was in French. That makes sense, since it's the original language; they would only have mentioned it if it had been in another language. There is a video trailer of the production on YouTube in which the mezzo-soprano sings in French, but I would rather not link to it as it contains some mild nudity. I also added a sentence about the performance being broadcast on Italian radio and that it was also the Italian debut for Irene Roberts (singer) as Carmen and David Bižić as Escamillo. Neither of them specialize in Italian opera, so the DYK fun fact remains special for Vickers. Suchfaktor (talk) 09:49, 12 October 2025 (UTC)

Linking to the trailer should be okay as Wikipedia is not censored, as long as it is an official source and not an unofficial or pirated upload. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 01:37, 16 October 2025 (UTC)

@Narutolovehinata5: Good to know! I added the Carmen trailer video as a source now. Suchfaktor (talk) 17:41, 16 October 2025 (UTC)

Okay, I think the YouTube references should be good enough to approve ALT1. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:08, 17 October 2025 (UTC)