Talk:Maize

why is the page called maize if it's supposed to be written in American English?

The debate to move this page from maize to corn has happened quite a few times it looks like without a consensus ever being reached, rest assured this is not a move request and I am not trying to reopen that debate but I do have a question about the page name, it says here on the talk page that this article is meant to be written in American English which primarily calls the crop "corn", so I wonder why we use American spelling for most of this page but don't use the American name as the title itself.

on a related note we should also probably add a FAQ Template to this talk page explaining why the page is currently called maize. PharaohCrab speak𓀁 works𓀨 15:53, 12 June 2026 (UTC)

PharaohCrab, the two matters are entirely separate. A sensible more-or-less consensus (or at least a fairly good ceasefire) has been reached: please read the section 'Maize#Names' which sets out the facts in detail. All the best, Chiswick Chap (talk) 16:00, 12 June 2026 (UTC)

how are the separate issues? PharaohCrab speak𓀁 works𓀨 16:07, 12 June 2026 (UTC)

The community has always seen them as such; the language variant inside an article is a local decision largely driven by who first wrote it up on Wikipedia, while article titles are driven by usage across the English-speaking world. Chiswick Chap (talk) 17:56, 12 June 2026 (UTC)

I do agree with Chiswick Chap here. I actually did have a FAQ mostly ready a few years ago summarizing common arguments, but that effort was put into having a functional FAQ in the article content itself. There's a few meta-things that could go into a FAQ that aren't in content, but it's still probably better to focus on the names section. If we absolutely reach the point of needing a FAQ I could revive what I had drafted somewhere.

As a side note, American English uses both corn and maize (though the former is the primary name here). Sometimes people reduce the discussion down to UK vs. American English as corn vs. maize when it's not quite that simple though, so I always try to caution about that too. It's not a standard WP:ENGVAR issue like color vs. colour at least. KoA (talk) 20:18, 18 June 2026 (UTC)

KoA, thank you. We definitely need an FAQ: I've added such a thing in a couple of other places that needed it, but this one is clearly urgent. If you can find it, that'd be great. Chiswick Chap (talk) 20:25, 18 June 2026 (UTC)

It might have to wait until after this weekend when I'm not on the road, but I'll see if I can dig it up when I get to my home computer. KoA (talk) 20:38, 18 June 2026 (UTC)

Requested move 13 June 2026

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. – robertsky (talk) 22:31, 20 June 2026 (UTC)

---

Maize → CornCorn – Okay. I have read the most recent Maize VS. Corn discussion. (2023) Now, a common argument is that apparently "Maize" is the formal, scientific common name. BUT I don't understand the claim that "Corn" is another way of saying cereal. Corn is WP:Commonname here. I can follow up with additonal sources and arguments if needed. Also, I heavily recommend that respondents here read the previous discussions (especially the 9 February 2023 discussion.) Thank you. Robloxguest3 (talk) 06:32, 13 June 2026 (UTC)

• Oppose, as in the previous 7 misguided proposals, and as documented in detail in the 'Names' section of the article, Maize is the common name in worldwide usage and should remain the article title. I note the word "here" in the nomination: whichever country may have been intended, it is not the world, and Wikipedia, a global encyclopedia, must not be subject to parochial hegemony. Chiswick Chap (talk) 07:58, 13 June 2026 (UTC)
• Oppose, also as in the previous proposals. "Corn" does not meet WP:PRECISION worldwide. It simply is another way of saying cereal in many countries, as per the definition here. There's no point in keeping on re-visiting this discussion unless there are genuinely new arguments. Peter coxhead (talk) 11:07, 13 June 2026 (UTC)

  Addendum: an interesting exercise for those not aware of the non-maize meanings of corn is look at the Google results for "corn sheaf" or "corn dolly". Peter coxhead (talk) 11:13, 13 June 2026 (UTC)

  Corn sheaf actually refers to bundles of corn, but also wheat because it is also a cereal crop, but it is not a non-maize meaning of corn. Robloxguest3 (talk) 17:21, 13 June 2026 (UTC)

  Well, "Maize" related terms exist with the word corn used instead.

  See:

  Articles

  1. Corn maze (Maize is used as a secondary name)
  2. Candy corn
  3. Popcorn
  4. Sweet corn (There has not been a move discussion about moving it to "Sweet Maize"
  5. Corn starch (See the discussion about the name here)
  6. Corn picker, however it is a stub article with only 2 sources, but still worth mentioning.
  7. Corn nut
  8. Corn kernel, with the opening sentence stating: "Corn kernels are the fruits of corn (called maize in many countries)"
  9. Dent corn

  There are some other articles calling "Maize" Corn, (with a lot of them mentioning Maize as a secondary name) but i'm sure you get the point.

  Sources

  Sources calling "Maize" corn:

  1. https://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/crops/corn-and-other-feed-grains/feed-grains-sector-at-a-glance
  2. https://www.ncga.com/
  3. https://corn.org/
  4. https://www.ilcorn.org/
  5. https://www.agfoundation.org/news/different-types-of-corn-how-they-are-used
  6. https://www.umass.edu/agriculture-food-environment/nutrition/publications-resources/produce-spotlight/corn
  7. https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%8E%89%E7%B1%B3 (the Chinese Wikipedia calls it "Corn")
  8. https://foodwise.org/foods/corn/ (seems to treat "Maize" as an older name.)

  There are more sources, but again, you get the point.

  Summary

  The articles mentioned mostly never had a move discussion about replacing "Corn" with "Maize". Some of them did have discussions questioning the use of "Corn", but there was no formal move discussion. What I see is that no move discussions took place either because no one thought was a problem, or because they were originally written in American english or something. Also, like brought up previously, the "Maize" article was originally titled "Corn", but someone then moved it to "Maize" without discussion.

  In general, Corn seems to be the common name here, and should be moved to comply with WP:Commonname. Robloxguest3 (talk) 17:17, 13 June 2026 (UTC)

  @Robloxguest3: of course you can find many sources from countries in which "corn" = Zea mays that support this usage. The point that has been made repeatedly is that worldwide "corn" is highly ambiguous and so fails WP:PRECISION. Your arguments don't refute that point. Peter coxhead (talk) 06:58, 14 June 2026 (UTC)

  "Corn" is a common name for "cereal", and for "grain or seed". It is an error to imagine that what is common in America is automatically a WP:COMMONNAME for a species: America is not the world, even if some people think it is. Chiswick Chap (talk) 08:31, 14 June 2026 (UTC)

  Do you have a source for that? Also, it seems that you think I believe America is the world. That is a bit of a stretch. Robloxguest3 (talk) 18:07, 14 June 2026 (UTC)

• Oppose: lack of specificity is unhelpful per wP:PRECISE ―Howard • 🌽³³ 14:02, 13 June 2026 (UTC)

• Comment Corn is used to mean any cereal crop in most of the world except the United States and a few other countries like Canada, New Zealand, Australia, &c where it is never used like which is why you likely haven't seen that use. I am currently drafting a FAQ Section for the talk page to hopefully clear up future confusion.

PharaohCrab speak𓀁 works𓀨 15:25, 13 June 2026 (UTC)

Do you have a source for that? Robloxguest3 (talk) 17:22, 13 June 2026 (UTC)

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/corn PharaohCrab speak𓀁 works𓀨 21:32, 13 June 2026 (UTC)

It appears that is says that corn is any cereal crop in the UK only.

[ U ] UK

the seeds of plants, such as wheat, oats, and barley, that can be used to produce flour, or the plants themselves:

sheaf of corn

grain of corn

The UK definition is not used by all other countries. Robloxguest3 (talk) 18:13, 14 June 2026 (UTC)

• Move this page to Zea mays, and move Corn (disambiguation) to base name Corn. I think "corn" and "maize" should have different landing pages. This discussion is going to go on forever, because few North Americans are ever going to understand this as the correct landing page, while others would and vice versa if it were moved. There is no WP:PRIMARYTOPIC for corn between English dialects so DAB should be at base name, and "maize" isn't a COMMONNAME for corn in many countries and just confuses them.--Ortizesp (talk) 15:39, 13 June 2026 (UTC)

  I think Zea mays should be a secondary option if corn doesn't get consensus. Robloxguest3 (talk) 17:23, 13 June 2026 (UTC)

  The argument that people are confused seems odd if we follow what sources say though. Most of the world calls it maize as it is. In addition to sources already in the article, here's just one more. Here in the US, maize is generally understood as another name for corn even though corn is the more predominant name in this one area. If I step outside of sources though and speak from personal perspective like others have been, most farmers have no problem knowing what maize when I talk to them.

  We already have sources that maize is understood as the universal name though, and that does include North America. Obviously Mexico has no issue with maize, but as you move north, the two are understood even if one is used more. If someone is learning about the names for the first time if they're from the US and forgot they learned about the "alternative" name in school, then that's what this article's content and disambiguation is for like we do for other topics where a significant name is not the most significant. KoA (talk) 20:12, 18 June 2026 (UTC)

• Oppose. "Corn" is wildly ambiguous, while "maize" is widely understood and has but one meaning. The list of articles which use "corn" as part of the title aren't persuasive. As counter-examples, I offer barleycorn, corn beef, corn crake, Corn Laws, corn dolly, and corn plaster. pburka (talk) 23:04, 13 June 2026 (UTC)

  None of those are known as just corn, they're naturally disambiguation per NATURAL. Ortizesp (talk) 21:01, 14 June 2026 (UTC)

  Of course. They're counterexamples to the nom's claim that "corn maze" and "popcorn" somehow demonstrate that corn unambiguously means maize. pburka (talk) 21:44, 14 June 2026 (UTC)

  Popcorn is made from maize. Also, corn mazes use maize. Robloxguest3 (talk) 20:49, 15 June 2026 (UTC)

  apparently, the term maize maze is also sometimes used according to its article. though I will admit that it is an extraordinarily stupid name PharaohCrab speak𓀁 works𓀨 21:08, 15 June 2026 (UTC)

  Yes, popcorn is made from maize, which is a type of corn. What of it? pburka (talk) 23:16, 15 June 2026 (UTC)

  One could say popcorn is made from the corn of the maize plant. I don't think the use of popcorn has any relevant here, i.e. on what to call the plant.  —  Jts1882 | talk  11:59, 17 June 2026 (UTC)

• Oppose per WP:PRECISE. Zacwill (talk) 12:38, 14 June 2026 (UTC)
• Comment: I'm highly confused by the amount of people invoking WP:PRECISE, which is pretty clear about WP:PTOPIC being an exception to needing a title to be completely unambiguous with other articles. Corn is a redirect to Maize, and therefore the PTOPIC for Corn is this article. What PRECISE says in these situations is that PRECISE is overruled by other considerations. So what is it being cited for? It would make much more sense to discuss WP:COMMONNAME. ⹃Maltazarian ^{ᚾparley$\lor$investigateᛅ} 18:36, 14 June 2026 (UTC)

  To clarity: I did not mean that none of the opposition was based on WP:COMMONNAME; there are clearly oppose !votes that are related to that. ⹃Maltazarian ^{ᚾparley$\lor$investigateᛅ} 22:22, 14 June 2026 (UTC)

• Oppose per the 'Names' section, worldwide term use, 25 year history of the article as maize, and extensive work on the article by trusted long-term editors, KoA, Chiswick Chap, and Peter coxhead. Zefr (talk) 21:12, 14 June 2026 (UTC)
• Oppose maize is globally unambiguous and it satisfies both precision recognizability under WP:CRITERIA better than the alternative. EM (talk) 00:31, 16 June 2026 (UTC)
• Comment, I would be happy to see this moved to the formal, scientific name Zea mays, as the sort of compromise that satisfies almost no one. There is a consensus at WP:WikiProject Plants that the scientific name is preferred over any and all vernacular names, for precisely the reason here; avoiding arguments over whose name is more common or better. But I doubt many here can bring themselves around to it. Abductive (reasoning) 10:54, 17 June 2026 (UTC)

  Could you clarify what you mean about there being a consensus at WP:PLANTS? ⹃Maltazarian ^{ᚾparley$\lor$investigateᛅ} 21:48, 17 June 2026 (UTC)

  If one looks at previous move discussions, the scientific name gets a lot of support from regulars at WP:PLANTS. It's the default. On occasion when there is debate in the scientific community about the correct scientific name (examples; Lentil, Legume), the consensus on Wikipedia arrives at using the vernacular name. Abductive (reasoning) 23:10, 17 June 2026 (UTC)

  I would rather say that Lentil and Legume are applications of WP:FLORATITLES, which tells us to use the vernacular name when the plant is most prominent in non-botanical contexts. ⹃Maltazarian ^{ᚾparley$\lor$investigateᛅ} 03:02, 18 June 2026 (UTC)

  In practice that only applies when then article was created in the very early days of Wikipedia, or a user snuck a page move through without informing WP:PLANTS. Abductive (reasoning) 05:29, 18 June 2026 (UTC)

  Not sure what you mean there. In practice a naming convention is a naming convention, and always applies. Granted, it rarely comes up because most plants that actually have significant non-botanical notability are already going to have their article at the vernacular name. ⹃Maltazarian ^{ᚾparley$\lor$investigateᛅ} 07:05, 18 June 2026 (UTC)

  It means that there are editors who actively dislike the vernacular name of any taxon as an article title. Linnaeus lives on through his life work. Abductive (reasoning) 07:39, 18 June 2026 (UTC)

  Not really, no. WP:PLANTS uses the Latin name when a species, however much "non-botanical notability" it has, has more than one common name, or where the common name(s) are shared with other species. It would probably be best to use Zea mays here for the first reason. Chiswick Chap (talk) 07:41, 18 June 2026 (UTC)

  I'm just describing how I feel. Abductive (reasoning) 07:52, 18 June 2026 (UTC)

  (I was replying to M, not to you.) Chiswick Chap (talk) 07:58, 18 June 2026 (UTC)

  Indentation matters. Abductive (reasoning) 08:50, 18 June 2026 (UTC)

  Yes, and if I'd been replying to you I would have indented it to a level below yours. Chiswick Chap (talk) 08:16, 22 June 2026 (UTC)

  Technically not supposed to reply in a closed discussion but as I originally missed the replies and we're doing it anyways: yes, I'm aware there is an exception, but that didn't have an effect on the point I was making which was that the idea that the scientific name is always preferred is in direct conflict with WP:PLANTS, and local consensuses undermining NCs should be avoided. ⹃Maltazarian ^{ᚾparley$\lor$investigateᛅ} 08:29, 22 June 2026 (UTC)

Support move to Zea mays, as @Abductive says, the compromise that will satisfy pretty much no one, but probably needed. Though it seems to like UK English usage may be shifting to use both equally. The BBC uses "corn" to mean Zea mays. Examples The US is the world's biggest corn exporter - but for how long?, How to cook corn on the cob, Sweetcorn relish, Loaded corn on the cob. I would also support the move to corn as this is the clear primary in the US and Canada where much Zea mays is grown in the English speaking parts of the world, but it seems like the opposition is too strong for this even though WP:PTOPIC and WP:COMMONNAME say it should be corn. 🌿MtBotany (talk) 21:25, 17 June 2026 (UTC)

Only the first link is indicative of a shift. "Corn-on-the-cob" and "sweetcorn" are specific terms associated with maize in UK English. pburka (talk) 22:16, 17 June 2026 (UTC)

Correct on the corn on the cob, etc. It's worth mentioning that it's the qualifiers of corn of the cob, etc. that remove the ambiguity, but it keeps getting repeated in each move discussion.

The first link may be the BBC, but it's a US-focused article, and it's already described in the article that the US primarily uses the term corn for maize (but that maize is also understood there). Other BBC articles use corn when there is no maize in sight. Not all BBC articles represent UK usage, especially when they get into regional divisions within their large organization. I've seen that catch people off guard in other discussions too, but whenever someone tries to say UK English has significantly shifted on this (ignoring other types of English), it's usually not a sourced argument beyond someone saying they found a couple news articles using the term corn for maize in the UK. That can't contradict stronger sources directly addressing the name topic we already use in text. KoA (talk) 19:35, 18 June 2026 (UTC)

• Comment. I do wonder if this discussion might have gone in a different direction if the opening statement had been more carefully considered. Statements like "I don't understand the claim that "Corn" is another way of saying cereal" and "Corn is WP:Commonname here" (wherever here is!) are certain to provoke oppositional responses, even if there might be valid reasons to consider a move (none of which the nominator presented). pburka (talk) 22:56, 17 June 2026 (UTC)
• Oppose as usual - not the best-argued nom we have had on this. Johnbod (talk) 23:59, 17 June 2026 (UTC)

  even I didn't have the best argument, that doesn't mean an automatic oppose Robloxguest3 (talk) 03:59, 18 June 2026 (UTC)

• Oppose - Maize is unambiguous; corn is very much ambiguous, and originally referred to wheat, barley, etc., seeds - MPF (talk) 12:37, 18 June 2026 (UTC)
• Oppose. This proposal seems to ignore previous consensus and the sourced article text itself in Maize#Names that was supposed to stop endless move requests. The "round and round" template was placed on this talk page because people often come with mistaken assumptions on the name question that are often repeatedly addressed in the archives. That includes common arguments like "What about sweet corn?" when everyone should know by now based on past discussion that the qualifier removes the ambiguity.

At the end of the day, maize is not an ambiguous term at all and is considered the universal common name in sources. That means moving to Zea mays really isn't suitable here either since there is not real dispute to change the article title over between those two. Comments that moving to Zea mays as a "compromise" is a false dilemma. Having maize redirect to corn is even worse due to the ambiguity that's already been hashed out extensively in the archives and summarized here. KoA (talk) 19:18, 18 June 2026 (UTC)

For those who haven't seen the article content that was hashed out by consensus, it's worth a read: The name maize derives from the Spanish form maíz of the Taíno mahis. The Swedish botanist Carl Linnaeus used the common name maize as the species epithet in Zea mays. The name maize is preferred in formal, scientific, and international usage as a common name because it refers specifically to this one grain, unlike corn, which has a complex variety of meanings that vary by context and geographic region. Most countries primarily use the term maize, and the name corn is used mainly in the U.S. and a handful of other English-speaking countries. In countries that primarily use the term maize, the word corn may denote any cereal crop, varying geographically with the local staple, such as wheat in England and oats in Scotland or Ireland. The usage of corn for maize started as a shortening of "Indian corn" in 18th-century North America.

References

There's already very clear sourced discussion on the name question, so Wikipedia editors really shouldn't be overriding that in terms of personal opinion. KoA (talk) 19:18, 18 June 2026 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Sourcing for statement in "Names" section

(Not about the name of the article.) I appreciate the care taken to write the current "Names" section; this comment is offered in the spirit of iteration and consensus-building. I'm looking at this sentence: In countries that primarily use the term maize, the word corn may denote any cereal crop, varying geographically with the local staple, such as wheat in England and oats in Scotland or Ireland. Citations used to support this statement, with 1-2 in the article and 3-4 in talk page discussions (January 2023, July 2023):

Quotes 1-4

1. OED, "corn", sense II.3.a.: "As a general term the word includes all the cereals, wheat, rye, barley, oats, maize, rice, etc., and, with qualification (as black corn, pulse corn), is extended to leguminous plants, as pease, beans, etc., cultivated for food. Locally, the word, when not otherwise qualified, is often understood to denote that kind of cereal which is the leading crop of the district; hence in the greater part of England ‘corn’ is = wheat n., in North Britain and Ireland = oats".
2. This 1994 encyclopedia: "The word "maize" is preferred in international usage because in many countries the term "corn", the name by which the plant is known in the United States, is synonymous with the leading cereal grain; thus, in England "corn" refers to wheat, and in Scotland and Ireland it refers to oats."
3. Cambridge Dictionary, "corn", sense B1, marked UK: "the seeds of plants, such as wheat, oats, and barley, that can be used to produce flour, or the plants themselves".
4. Collins Dictionary, "corn": Sense 4 in "Webster’s New World College Dictionary, 5th Digital Edition. Copyright © 2025", marked British: "the leading cereal crop in a particular place, as wheat in England or oats in Scotland and Ireland". Noun sense 1 in "Collins English Dictionary", marked British: "any of various cereal plants, esp the predominant crop of a region, such as wheat in England and oats in Scotland and Ireland".

The OED entry is marked "not fully revised" since the 1989 edition, and the 1994 encyclopedia is older than many readers and editors, so this statement about current usage could benefit from stronger sourcing or tighter scoping. It's not clear to me whether the Webster's or Collins dictionaries consider themselves fully revised. Secondary sources for British English shifting somewhat (5-6 are from the July 2023 discussion):

Quotes 5-7

5. Telegraph, 2022: "First, let’s address the corn and wheat confusion. Not so long ago, those golden fields that the young Theresa May ran through so recklessly were called cornfields over here, and corn was what we made flour from...As American and British cultures have blended, and maize has become a regular part of our diet, we’ve shifted our language and now refer to what we grind to make bread flour as wheat. While we eat sweetcorn as a vegetable, there are many types of maize..."

6. Spectator, 2022: "Since the Ukraine war began, discussion of wheat and maize has increased no end, but it is often impossible to tell whether wheat or maize is meant by corn. I thought we had agreed to differ with America on this."

7. Horticulture.co.uk, 2025: "In the UK nowadays corn most commonly refers to the kernels, the cob, and other food-based uses for the plant...In centuries past, corn would’ve been used to refer to the dominant crop in a region, whether that was wheat, rye, oats, or similar. The exact reference would vary depending on the region, but thankfully this usage has fallen out of favour over time."

I'm wondering about something like this, avoiding relying on a 1994 encyclopedia for current usage and leaving a bit of room for contemporary shifts and variations: In the United Kingdom, which primarily uses the terms maize or sweetcorn,[5][6] the word corn has been used to denote maize or any other staple cereal crop, such as wheat in England or oats in Scotland and Ireland.[1][4] Dreamyshade (talk) 02:43, 23 June 2026 (UTC)

Hi, thanks for discussing. You'll see if you look at the eight discussions of the article's name that they refer, many times, to the "Names" section. That section has been hammered out with a large amount of collaborative effort by many editors, and many reliable sources are cited. Those sources are of different ages. On the proposed wording about "British English" usage, we Brits (including farmers) still say "Maize" for the plant, even if we have for decades also said "sweet corn" (for the dish only, not for the plant). The proposed wording is therefore actually wrong, confounding two different BE usages. The rewording of the second part is I think unintentionally counterproductive, as it would stir up a ninth discussion. Chiswick Chap (talk) 06:46, 23 June 2026 (UTC)