Talk:Macau

Google Ngram results for Macau and Macao

For reference. Yue🌙 (talk) 05:31, 21 December 2025 (UTC)

Requested move 13 May 2026

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Snowball - consensus not to move.

Consensus holds that:

• "Macau" is commonly used in English‑language sources, so WP:UE does not apply.
• Even though both "Macau" and "Macao" are common in English‑language sources, they are not equally prevalent; "Macau" is significantly more widely used than "Macao".
• The greater common usage of "Macau" outweighs the status of "Macao" as the official English name.
  SoAnnoyedToName (talk) 04:17, 24 May 2026 (UTC)

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Macau → MacaoMacao – In Talk:Macau/Archive_5#Requested_move_24_June_2024, Opponents merely argue that the two terms are equally commonly used and provide no other arguments. This point alone cannot advance either support or opposition, so the valid information of these comments is equivalent to WP:ILIKEIT. However, supporters have put forward additional arguments—the official name—which opponents have failed to address. Per WP:NOTDEMOCRACY, we cannot deem the two sides deadlocked simply because their numbers are nearly equal. The summary claims that "WP:COMMONNAME supersedes WP:OFFICIAL", yet nearly everyone involved holds that the two terms enjoy equal common usage; how can one "supersede" the other? SoAnnoyedToName (talk) 16:42, 13 May 2026 (UTC) — Relisting. ⹃Maltazarian ^{ᚾparley$\lor$investigateᛅ} 17:54, 20 May 2026 (UTC)

Support. Either would be common name. Neither will create any more confusion than the other. In a situation where the issues are otherwise balanced, we should choose the name that has the added benefit of being official.

It is important to remember that the purpose for WP:COMMONNAME is because the common name is often the one that will fit the article naming criteria best. It is not a mathematical imperative that binds us. "Macau" and "Macao" both fit the article naming criteria.

As a side note, inconsistencies with "Macau" and "Macao" are inescapable; this is part and parcel of Macao's historical contingencies and unique cultural development. Better to at least use the "official" English name on English Wikipedia. JArthur1984 (talk) 20:48, 13 May 2026 (UTC)

• Support per WP: UE. I am bilingual, and often confused as to which is English or Portuguese spelling. It is best to have English spelling in English -language Wikipedia. Walrasiad (talk) 04:48, 14 May 2026 (UTC)

Are there any sources that refer to the territory as Macao? Great Mercian (talk) 10:42, 14 May 2026 (UTC)

Yes, we have quite many sourced in the article that use "Macao". JArthur1984 (talk) 17:10, 14 May 2026 (UTC)

Can you link them? Great Mercian (talk) 06:16, 15 May 2026 (UTC)

Scroll on the main article or use ctrl+f, you'll find various examples in the article body and then you'll see the many "Macao" usages in the references section. JArthur1984 (talk) 14:32, 19 May 2026 (UTC)

• Support per the arguments above. The Account 2 (talk) 17:45, 14 May 2026 (UTC)
• Support per WP:UE. Wasting time is still my passion (talk) 20:45, 14 May 2026 (UTC)

  WP:UE is not an adequate rationale when English-language sources such as Encyclopædia Britannica prefer Macau as do major English-language news outlets such as the BBC, New York Times, or Al Jazeera. It is also worth noting that the two English-language newspapers in Macau are the Macau Daily Times and the Macau Post Daily. (See WP:ENGLISH for the relevant Wikipedia guideline here.) - Amigao (talk) 02:45, 20 May 2026 (UTC)

• Oppose. That is unacceptable. We already have languages in Wikipedia for Macau. SoGuys881 (talk) 21:58, 14 May 2026 (UTC) —  Blocked sockpuppet. ⹃Maltazarian ^{ᚾparley$\lor$investigateᛅ} 17:57, 20 May 2026 (UTC)
• Oppose It is untrue that the "opponents merely argue that the two terms are equally commonly used". I refer and copy information shared (by someone else) that British English, American English, Australian English... favor/favour different spellings (with the US, Singapore, and Australia adopt Macau while China and the UK adopted the "official" Macao). Pignoof (talk) 13:19, 15 May 2026 (UTC)

  China isn't independent of the government of the place. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 16:47, 21 May 2026 (UTC)

• Oppose per WP:RECOGNIZABILITY. Both names are commonly used in English, but "Macau" predominates. There are many places where the Anglicised name was abandoned and the native name prevailed (Lyon/Lyons, Porto/Oporto etc.), and I see returning to "Macao" as a step back.

Ngrams results shows similar use of both names in English. Google Scholar (English pages, year 2020–) shows 68 thousand hits for "Macau" and about 57 thousand hits for "Macao". "Macau" appears more often in official English names of institutions, such as the Macau Football Association and the University of Macau. Basically all the main media use predominantly "Macau", see (2020–present) BBC (c. 230 vs 60 hits), The Times (c. 115 vs 44 hits), New York Times (c. 244 vs 115 hits), CBS News (76 vs 9 hits) and ABC (c. 178 vs 115 hits). I could name others. FromCzech (talk) 13:21, 15 May 2026 (UTC)

❤️ SoGuys881 (talk) 14:32, 15 May 2026 (UTC)

This is the most convincing counterargument I have seen so far. SoAnnoyedToName (talk) 18:07, 15 May 2026 (UTC)

• Oppose as Macao does not command greater WP:RECOGNIZABILITY in English. (Interestingly, the main newspaper of record in the immediate vicinity, South China Morning Post, prefers Macau.) There is not yet a strong change rationale per WP:TITLECHANGES. - Amigao (talk) 23:04, 15 May 2026 (UTC)
• Oppose per FromCzech Great Mercian (talk) 23:52, 17 May 2026 (UTC)
• Support per WP:UE and WP:NOTDEMOCRACY. Cfls (talk) 01:07, 18 May 2026 (UTC)
• Oppose. I don't see the benefit in renaming to "Macao". Macau is much more commonly used in English discourse, and as such the current name should be kept per WP:RECOGNIZABILITY. I understand that the SAR government officially refers to itself as Macau Macao (typo corrected), but under that logic shouldn't we also rename the page Turkey to Türkiye? Psnq0009 (talk) 11:26, 20 May 2026 (UTC)

  We use Germany instead of "Deutschland", Japan instead of "Nihon", China instead of "Zhongguo". We use Switzerland instead of "Schweiz/Suisse/Svizzera/Svizra". "Türkiye" is not in English. We tend to use the English-language names. WP:UE. Cfls (talk) 22:29, 20 May 2026 (UTC)

  @Cfls I was under the thinking that Turkey changed its name its English name to Türkiye in 2022. Psnq0009 (talk) 22:34, 20 May 2026 (UTC)

  Turkey can declare what it wants, but Wikipedia does not necessarily obey government decrees – especially government decrees from non-English-speaking places about what people should do in English. If it did, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Wikipedia's article title has remained "Turkey". —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 16:55, 21 May 2026 (UTC)

  That’s right, hence why despite both the SAR and Central governments preferring “Macao” in English, I believe that “Macau” is at least no worse than “Macao” as it appears to be used more and hence more recognisable for English speakers. Psnq0009 (talk) 21:30, 21 May 2026 (UTC)

  The local government refers to itself as "Macao" in English (officially), but "Macau" in Portuguese (officially). JArthur1984 (talk) 00:49, 21 May 2026 (UTC)

  Sorry, yes I meant the “the SAR government officially refers to itself as Macao”—my apologies for the typo. Psnq0009 (talk) 01:10, 21 May 2026 (UTC)

• Oppose. WP:WIAN suggests several reliable sources to consult in resolving cases like this.
  • Major English-language encyclopedias and other references works: Macau is used by Britannica, The Columbia Encyclopedia, and the Concise Oxford Dictionary of World Place Names (6 ed., 2020). Macao is used by Oxford's World Encyclopedia (2004). Merriam-Webster lists them as co-equal variants but the "Macao" is the heading which some style guides suggest should be the preferred spelling.
  • Gazeteers: The government does indeed use Macao.
  • Maps published by National Geographic: Macau appears on maps.

As previous discussions have amply covered, a wider assessment of sources shows roughly equal usage (but: see below 17:21, 21 May 2026 (UTC)). In this selection of some of the best sources, there is a preference for Macau though some might argue usage is roughly split. WP:TITLECHANGES requires a good reason for a page move, and none is provided here. The nom attempts to dismiss opposition as "I don't like it" but the same could be said about this proposal. There is no coherent basis in policy or usage to support this change. All available evidence suggests Macau is either better or equally as good. —Myceteae‍🍄‍🟫 (talk) 15:01, 21 May 2026 (UTC)

Regarding Merriam-Webster, the main entry name or first variant listed is generally interpreted as preferred (Macao in that case). The Cambridge Dictionary has Macau, and Collins has Macao. Neither of those acknowledges other variants in English. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 16:41, 21 May 2026 (UTC)

At Merriam-Webster, The label or means that the variant is as common or nearly as common as the entry word. The entry word is usually the form that comes first alphabetically. Or may indicate alphabetical order only or the spelling form that is used slightly more frequently. Since Macao comes first alphabetically, we can't assume M-W thinks it is even slightly more common. Many style guides, like Chicago, acknowledge this and default to using the first entry as a rule of thumb while making note of the difference between or and also and permitting more flexibility to choose a preferred variant when spellings are listed as or. This is the long explanation for what I meant by which some style guides suggest should be the preferred spelling. At best, M-W provides weak justification for Macao and could reasonably be read as suggesting Aomen as a suitable third option that avoids this whole mess. Interestingly, Dictionary.com has two entries and suggests that Macau is British English but in the examples listed all but one of the sources are American publications. —Myceteae‍🍄‍🟫 (talk) 17:17, 21 May 2026 (UTC)

As previous discussions have amply covered, a wider assessment of sources shows roughly equal usage. I would amend this by noting @FromCzech's assessment of recent sources showing a grater preference for Macau, which strengthens my opposition to the proposed move. —Myceteae‍🍄‍🟫 (talk) 17:20, 21 May 2026 (UTC)

• Oppose per FromCzech and Myceteae. No WP:COMMONNAME evidence given, we don't need to follow the technically English (as argued per WP:UE) official name (as argued per WP:OFFICIALNAME) just because, but simply (as stated in both of those) what is most common in English overall (not just officially designated as "English"), with evidence given to maintain Macau. DankJae 02:20, 23 May 2026 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.