Talk:MI5

Only first publicly acknowledged by Britain in 1992/3

Something like this should be said - that there was an utterly ridiculous situation for decades that even James Bond films about MI5 were being routinely made every 2 years etc, but the British govt still always refused to officially acknowledge that MI5 even existed (until 1992/3). The Stella Rimington article does say that she was the first MI5 leader acknowledged by the govt - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stella_Rimington — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.16.72.221 (talk) 22:54, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

As a point of accuracy, James Bond is part of MI6, not MI5. Dferstat (talk) 12:02, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

MI5/SS Logo

File:MI5.jpg

Original MI5 logo. Believed to be pre-1955 or as part of her 1950's to 1970's official insignia It features the 'Eye of Providence', also known as the 'all-seeing eye'.

Should the MI5/SS logo be mentioned in this article? I believe it is pre-1955 but have also read that it was used from the 1950's to 1970's. Any more information on this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.96.24.33 (talk • contribs) 21:42, 21 January 2009

Controversies section?

After reading the recent BBC piece "How MI5 piled falsehood on falsehood in the case of neo-Nazi spy who abused women," I'm wondering if maybe there should be a "controversies" section on this page. That seems to be a standard practice for other large institutions, so I'm surprised that there's not one here. Anyone want to take a shot at it?

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c3w4nwdwywno Drabconcert (talk) 20:45, 7 July 2025 (UTC)

Please see WP:CSECTION. "Avoid sections and articles focusing on criticisms or controversies". I have recently spent quite a bit of time dismantling "controversy sections" on articles such as Rio Tinto and BHP, among others. Dormskirk (talk) 22:34, 7 July 2025 (UTC)

"The Security Service" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect The Security Service has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2025 December 27 § The Security Service until a consensus is reached. GnocchiFan (talk) 13:59, 27 December 2025 (UTC)

Problems on page

I've just had my first read of this article, and found several things I see as problems.

Oversight

Of the four sentences in this section, only the first actually discusses anything like the topic; even then, it just blandly states that staff are bound by the Official Secrets Act. There's no mention of what, if any, bodies actually have any oversight over MI5.

The next two sentences discuss the scope of MI5's activities, while the last names the current head. These are nothing to do with oversight.

Sentence 2 is also duplicated below under Participation of MI5 officers in criminal activity.

Early years

The last paragraph confuses me. It starts off "In 2006, his article ... ". Who's being referred to here? Then someone called Hiley "objected to the retelling of the story". Who is this person, and what is their significance? Which story? The preceding paragraph? And why did they object? Without context, the objections are meaningless.

Inter-war period

Paragraph 1, sentence 2 actually discusses MI5 during WWI, as does the entire para 2. I suggest joining this content with the last 2 paras of the previous section, Early years, into a new WW1 section.

Given that, according to this article, MI5 did not operate in Ireland during the war of independence, I query the inclusion of most of the content in this section. If MI5 had no part in the conflict, this content should be on a different page, not this one.

I'd be grateful if a subject matter expert, or two, would have a look at these. Dferstat (talk) 12:54, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

I have tried to sort the bit on "early years". In my view, duplication of the bit about "Participation of MI5 officers in criminal activity" is justified because the sections are quite far apart. I express no view on the other points. Dormskirk (talk) 13:41, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

Thanks for shedding a bit more light on Hiley.

Yes, a large distance between the mentions of criminal activity might justify the repetition. Well, it would, if it had any relevance to Oversight, and I can't see any. Oversight refers to external bodies being able to monitor and report on breaches of an organisation's duties and responsibilities, which is not what the text in question is about. Dferstat (talk) 15:10, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

Ok, I've given the Organisation section a pass. I've removed the duplicate, irrelevant material. I've moved around some content into more appropriate sub-headings, and done some re-formatting for readability. (Very long sentences should be avoided.)

I'd like to know what people think of this. Dferstat (talk) 15:43, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

I've now had a go at the WW1 issue. I've moved relevant material from Early Years and Inter-war period into a new First World War section.

I've also slightly edited the para on Hiley to point out that he disputes official accounts.

I haven't attempted at the Irish War of Independence material, because that's going to require close reference to another page. I'd really be happier if someone more familiar with that topic could comment here. Dferstat (talk) 23:24, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

I've had a look at the "Inter-war period" section, and I think I know what needs to go.

The 1st paragraph is fine, discussing MI5.

The second paragraph also, mostly, deals with MI5. However, the last sentence, detailing the allocation of the officers trained by MI5, is not relevant, it seems, because by this point these officers had no further involvement with MI5.

The next 4 paragraphs, from "In April 1919, Colonel Walter Wilson ..." through to "... D Branch thrived under Boyle's leadership" again have no connection to MI5, and should go.

The remaining 2 paragraphs are, however, connected to MI5, even if this connection doesn't appear until the end of the paragraph starting "In 1921, Sir Warren Fisher ...".

Other changes I would make would be to change the paragraph 2 reference to the "Anglo-Irish War" to "Irish War of Independence". The existing reference to "Irish War of Independence" I would change to simply "conflict".

In the last paragraph, I would change "MI5's efficiency in counter-espionage declined from the 1930s" to "MI5's efficiency in counter-espionage declined IN the 1930s". The section on WWII shows that MI5 was effective during the war, so any downturn in the 1930s must have been only temporary.

Comments are welcome. Dferstat (talk) 04:44, 17 January 2026 (UTC)

I've now made these changes. I've added some more links, removed a redundant link, and added some minor re-wording. Dferstat (talk) 08:56, 1 February 2026 (UTC)