Talk:Lisa Cristiani

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Lee Vilenski (talk) 16:29, 15 February 2020 (UTC)

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• Article history

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• ... that Lisa Cristiani was the first European woman to hold public musical concerts in Siberia? Source: "After having held a court appointment in Copenhagen, Miss Cristiani visited Russia. There she carried out the idea of making her talent known in a country that European artists had not then visited, with the result that she was the first to give public concerts in Siberia and Kamtschatka."

• Reviewed: Capricorn Seamount

Created by Silver seren (talk). Self-nominated at 07:17, 26 January 2020 (UTC).

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: All general criteria met, and the sources check out with the contents. Good to go. Juxlos (talk) 10:37, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

• Hi, I came by to promote this, but I don't see the hook fact about being the "first European" in the article. Yoninah (talk) 23:36, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

• "Not long after, in the fall of 1853, she began a new trek across the Siberian wilderness to the Kamchatka Peninsula for another tour in the region, being the first to give public concerts in the remote cities of the North Asian continent."

@Yoninah: Does it literally have to worded the exact same as the hook? Silverseren^C 01:01, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

@Silver seren: no, but the article is not saying "first European", just "first". Yoninah (talk) 12:17, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

@Yoninah: Because that source says first, while others say first European. I decided to have the hook itself be a bit more conservative, even if by the source I would be allowed to just say first. Silverseren^C 23:27, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

• @Silver seren: then the hook wording does not meet WP:DYK#Eligibility 3. Cited hook: The fact(s) mentioned in the hook must be cited in the article. Do you want to run the hook without the word "European"? Yoninah (talk) 17:17, 1 February 2020 (UTC)

• @Yoninah: I've already changed the article to add the word European. Silverseren^C 06:13, 2 February 2020 (UTC)

• @Yoninah: You there? I've updated the article to have the more specific statement of her being the first European to do such a tour. Silverseren^C 22:25, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

• Thank you. I just had to check the source, which you cited above. Restoring tick per Juxlos' review. Yoninah (talk) 22:28, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

• I was going to promote this, but I don't like the geography in the article and the snippet quoted above. The article mentioned "Tobolsk, but resulted soon after with a case of cholera and had to stop in Novocherkassk", but these places are perhaps a thousand miles apart. Could we not have a hook that mentioned her tragic death on this tour? Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:57, 7 February 2020 (UTC)

• @Cwmhiraeth: I've altered the article. I feel like the one reference saying Novocherkassk was just wrong. As for the hook, i'd really like to have something focusing on her achievements, rather than on how she died. Silverseren^C 07:22, 7 February 2020 (UTC)

• I have restored the tick, but the infobox still mentions her place of death as Novocherkassk. There may be confusion over similarly-named places. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 07:33, 7 February 2020 (UTC)

• Actually, doing some further research I find the Trans-Siberian railway mentioned and her place of death confirmed as Novocherkassk. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 07:42, 7 February 2020 (UTC)

• That's confusing then. As you noted, the two places are hundreds of miles apart and in the wrong direction from where she was headed to. Silverseren^C 07:44, 7 February 2020 (UTC)

• Considering the place of death is cited, I don't see any outstanding issues over the promotion of this page. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:29, 15 February 2020 (UTC)

Could we please update this page full of errors?

Dear contributors,

This page is unfortunately full of errors in every paragraph – just have a brief look at the same page on the German Wikipedia and you will understand immediately. This is primarily due to the fact that nearly all research on Lise Cristiani has been done since 1990 by German musicologists and that the only two small biographies in English I found were full of errors: Edmund van der Straeten, History of the violoncello, the viol da gamba, their precursors and collateral instruments, Londres, William Reeves, 1914 and the article of Lynda Mac Gregor in the The New Grove Dictionary of Music and Musicians of 1980 (and never corrected since). This probably explains the discussions above about the correct place of death: of course it is NOT Tobolsk, an error in the two articles of 1914 and 1980. Etc.

You can find a reliable short biography in English here: https://www.lisecristiani.com/en/biographie. It is taken from the first serious biography of Lise Cristiani (published last year in French for her bicentenary): Waldemar Kamer & René de Vries Lise Cristiani, Paris, Bleu nuit éditeur, 2025, publié avec le soutien du Palazzetto Bru Zane – Centre de musique romantique française.

How can we proceed? I feel competent about the matter, but much less for adding information on the English Wikipedia. To begin, the name of the page should be LisE and not LisA (there is not a single “Lisa” in the 53 references of the German page). Waldemar Kamer writes in his book that he found more than 15 different spellings of her name (which explains the error), but that she and her family only wrote “Lise B. [Barbier] Cristiani” and never anything else.

And for the references of the page: Lise Cristiani was not “one of the earliest recorded instances of a woman becoming a professional in the field”, but clearly the first professional cellist on the European stages in 1845. So I don’t understand why her importance in women’s history is indicated as “low” etc.

Thank you for your help and please write to me on my personal contributors-page, so that we keep this discussion-page only for the content.

Tristan~~~~ Tristan Conrad (talk) 20:21, 1 May 2026 (UTC)