Talk:Lee Teng-hui

Hakka descent

The article says, that Lee "was of Yongding, Tingzhou, Hakka descent." In footnote 8, it is said that his great-grandfather 李乾蔥 (Li Qianlian) was a Hakka. While the article is correct (Lee is of Hakka descent, at least 1/8 of him is Hakka), in the video listed at footnote 6 Lee speaks Hokkien (台語) – with a rare Japanese ("ato", 後) in his talk; and footnote 8 even claims that Lees father was Japanese ... So, what is Lee's "descent"? Thg (talk) 12:02, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Lee Teng-hui used Japanese name under Japanese rule, and as we all know, Chinese people don't like Lee Teng-hui, because of nationalism or they are stan on politics,IDK.

Show some people may want to create a "fact", let people suspect: "What if Lee are totally a Japanese. And he'll be fair here is for the good of Japan? You konw...... Maybe this is the reason why he made more people think: 'I am Taiwanese, not Chinese.' So for the sake of Taiwan, we should say we're Chinese, not Taiwanese."

So as far as I understand, Lee is not Japanese at all. Also, because Lee's "Japanese father" have too many versions, like a soldier from Japan or a policeman from Japan, in some versions even his mother is not the same person in law. Most importantly, if you search Lee's ancestry in any kind of Chinese, most articles which judge Lee have Japanese ancestry are from the China using simplified Chinese, or source from so pro-China newspaper.

And I think this kind of suspect is from the KMT supporter at first, because although President Lee is KMT's Taiwan president, but he help the DPP grow up. But the Chinese Government might think: "This is a good tool to make Taiwanese suspect their ethnic identity", so they just used it.

So I think Lee definitely doesn't have Japanese ancestry. If someone wants to prove that it's true, they need more proof, like the recording from the Japanese colonial government. Deadline fighter.Dying (talk) 01:27, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

It's also quite common to use Japanese phrases in Taiwanese, and many older Taiwanese can speak Japanese (like Lee Teng-hui), and modern Taiwanese language also have many phrases from the Japanese.

Example:

ENG:Hospital, manga.etc

TAI:pēnn-īnn(病院),bàng-gà(漫畫).etc

JAN:byōin(病院),manga(漫画).etc Deadline fighter.Dying (talk) 01:36, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

https://parupuntenobu.hatenablog.jp/entry/japanese-in-taiwanese Deadline fighter.Dying (talk) 01:38, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

Yes, I know. Adding Japanese to one's speech (because of partially Japanese education?) does not prove at all to be of Japanese descent :) Thg (talk) 11:36, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the comment. So, in effect, footnote 8, while being written in a somewhat "doubtful" newspaper, does not contain anything that is not also found in other footnotes (especially in #6). And since the other theory, of Lee having a Japanese father, has as its only source an unnamed father of politician Che, that theory seems to be more a rumor.- In effect, footnote 8 should be deleted? Thg (talk) 11:34, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

......the footnote 8 are from China Times, this daily newspaper are famous by pro-China and lots of fake news, they are controlled by "Want Want"(A Taiwan company, but their biggest market in China. They also have a disqualified television station called CTI Television Incorporation, because of fake news).

Some Taiwanese are even organising a political demonstration to show they don't like the pro-China stance of China Times.

https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2019/06/24/2003717475 Deadline fighter.Dying (talk) 02:16, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

objectivity concern

This Wikipedia article demonstrates a significant bias, focusing solely on Lee Teng-hui's achievements in democratization and localization while entirely omitting the fact that he was widely referred to as the "godfather of black gold politics" during his time. A simple Google search in Chinese for "李登輝 黑金政治" (Lee Teng-hui black gold politics) reveals a substantial number of academic papers and books attributing responsibility for black gold politics to Lee Teng-hui. Moreover, a review of contemporary newspapers and magazines from that era reflects a similar viewpoint. Even today, Taiwanese YouTubers and media outlets, such as Cheap and 志祺七七, regularly reference Lee Teng-hui's connection to black gold politics. But this article doesn't even mention about it. I believe there is sufficient reason to assert that the creators of this article have disregarded objectivity and are attempting to influence the perception of Lee Teng-hui in English-speaking countries. Weirongn (talk) 03:35, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

Lee Teng-hui has always been a controversial figure in Taiwan, yet this article only highlights his positive contributions while overlooking his controversies. This selective portrayal risks leading English-speaking audiences to believe that those who disagree with Lee are simply "dictator lovers." In reality, many of his critics oppose him due to his ties to black gold politics, populist strategies, and alleged mafia connections. Weirongn (talk) 03:46, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

I understand this perspective. You are making progress by adding well-sourced information on this. Also there is an article for black gold politics on English language, which I will wikilink. If you continue working on this point, you may wish to update Black gold (politics) as well. JArthur1984 (talk) 03:56, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

About GuardianH's accuse of highlights Black Gold Politic in this article is undue weight

If you search “李登輝 黑金” on Google, you’ll find plenty of sources linking Lee Teng-hui with black gold politics. A significant portion of the Chinese-language academic and media discourse associates him with the rise of black gold politics—especially during his presidency, when politicians from both the DPP and the New Party repeatedly attacked him as the "Godfather of Black Gold." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Weirongn (talk • contribs) 10:09, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

Books that accused Lee of black gold politic https://www.google.com.tw/books/edition/%E6%96%B0%E9%BB%A8%E9%80%9A%E8%A8%8A%E9%9B%9C%E8%AA%8C/ySY4AQAAIAAJ?hl=zh-TW&gbpv=1&bsq=%E6%9D%8E%E7%99%BB%E8%BC%9D+%E9%BB%91%E9%87%91+%E6%B0%91%E9%80%B2%E9%BB%A8&dq=%E6%9D%8E%E7%99%BB%E8%BC%9D+%E9%BB%91%E9%87%91+%E6%B0%91%E9%80%B2%E9%BB%A8&printsec=frontcover https://www.google.com.tw/books/edition/%E9%9D%92%E5%A4%A9%E7%99%BD%E6%97%A5%E4%B8%8B%E7%9A%84%E7%A7%98%E5%AF%86/48ngCgAAQBAJ?hl=zh-TW&gbpv=1&dq=%E6%9D%8E%E7%99%BB%E8%BC%9D+%E9%BB%91%E9%87%91+%E6%B0%91%E9%80%B2%E9%BB%A8&pg=PA290&printsec=frontcover https://www.google.com.tw/books/edition/%E6%9D%8E%E7%99%BB%E8%BC%9D%E7%B8%BD%E7%B5%B1%E7%9A%84%E6%9C%80%E5%BE%8C%E4%B8%80%E5%8D%83%E5%A4%A9/EaCCAAAAIAAJ?hl=zh-TW&gbpv=1&bsq=%E6%9D%8E%E7%99%BB%E8%BC%9D+%E9%BB%91%E9%87%91+%E6%B0%91%E9%80%B2%E9%BB%A8&dq=%E6%9D%8E%E7%99%BB%E8%BC%9D+%E9%BB%91%E9%87%91+%E6%B0%91%E9%80%B2%E9%BB%A8&printsec=frontcover

https://www.chinatimes.com/opinion/20210506005463-262104?chdtv https://tw.news.yahoo.com/%E6%B0%91%E4%B8%BB%E5%85%88%E7%94%9F%E6%88%96%E9%BB%91%E9%87%91%E6%95%99%E7%88%B6-%E6%9D%8E%E7%99%BB%E8%BC%9D%E5%80%9F%E5%8A%9B%E4%BD%BF%E5%8A%9B%E5%B1%95%E7%8F%BE%E6%94%BF%E6%B2%BB%E6%89%8B%E8%85%95-080930321.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAKXpki_KM37gMZZe-sFtxp_epxcN9yCwMuwbvmgRhHp_Hj7N9d8fQ3iz0mh3XLlH-2_K0As5jaFhfDHv-UE0Don1fxb08tT-Ryk_nO7EjhAPmyJjZjMzIlfy61f1TOi8E3DQ1KSQu3qDsb2s4I8mRbMu0ew8g6dHYY3Wa2ztZQZr https://forum.ettoday.net/news/1795572 https://168abc.net/analyst-view/tan-ql/5284 https://www.yzzk.com/queue?session&referrer=https://www.yzzk.com/article/details/%E5%B0%81%E9%9D%A2%E5%B0%88%E9%A1%8C%2F2006-16%2F1367466101335%2F%E9%8C%A2%E9%80%B2%E7%B8%BD%E7%B5%B1%E5%BA%9C%E5%8F%B0%E7%81%A3%E6%96%B0%E9%BB%91%E9%87%91%E6%94%BF%E6%B2%BB https://udn.com/news/story/7338/8095069 https://www.airitilibrary.com/Article/Detail/a0000495-200207-201308270019-201308270019-51-53 https://blog.simpleinfo.cc/shasha77/father-of-taiwan-democracy-lee-teng-hui — Preceding unsigned comment added by Weirongn (talk • contribs) 10:16, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

Verifiability does not guarantee inclusion. And verifiable sources are represented in accordance with their due weight. Among the mass of materials you've cited above are blogs, self-published sources, opinions, YouTube videos, and other sources that are not considered reliable. Notwithstanding this, Lee's influence on black gold politics is one of many, but not a lasting or defining part of his presidency, hence why we have a paragraph in the body but not something so large as an entire section, much less a section in the already concise lede.  GuardianH  04:04, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

@GuardianH Thank you for the clarification, GuardianH. I believe this topic warrants a genuine editorial debate rather than being closed off by assertions that, in themselves, rely on unexamined assumptions. Saying "Lee's involvement in black gold politics wasn't a defining part of his presidency" doesn't make it so by default—just as my claim that it was defining doesn't automatically make it true either.

What we need is a neutral process of evaluation and debate, based on verifiable and weighty sources. To that end, I’d like to request some time to gather published books and academic sources that support the perspective I’ve introduced. If these sources meet the standards of reliability and demonstrate notability and weight, I hope we can reconsider how this aspect of Lee’s legacy is represented—whether in the body or the lede.

Thanks for your patience. Weirongn (talk) 06:19, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

References

Addition of accusations of treason

• What I think should be changed (format using {{textdiff}}): I would like to add in the Legacy section (at the bottom is fine, and no text for removal needed):

In 2015, Kuomintang legislators as well as incumbent president Ma Ying-jeou accused Lee of treason, branding him as a hanjian (Chinese traitor).

• Why it should be changed: There is a citation from the BBC which is considered a reliable source for Wikipedia.
• References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button): see above citation.

24.50.56.74 (talk) 21:56, 17 September 2025 (UTC)

Edit made Kingsacrificer (talk) 19:47, 22 September 2025 (UTC)

References

"Mr. Democracy" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Mr. Democracy has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2025 October 15 § Mr. Democracy until a consensus is reached. Thepharoah17 (talk) 23:32, 16 October 2025 (UTC)