Talk:Lee Chang-sub

Updates about Shows that Lee-Changsub has done

Hello, I noticed that a lot of shows that Lee Changsub has done in the past have not been included in the information on this page. I also noticed that even though I have tried to update and put a lot of effort into making this page more informative, some editor(s) kept on deleting the changes that I've been making, even though I've included reliable references to confirm that what I wrote was not fake. Please mind that a lot of people who just got to know Lee Changsub would access this page first to search for what more shows ad activities he had been in. A lot of people have also become his fans even after watching just ONE of the variety shows that he had been a guest on, for e.g. "I Live Alone". Yet, the information about he being on the show was NOT even included on this page. Thus, I would like to point out the importance of updating and including the informations regarding the shows he had been in, especially the major ones, and encourage all the editors to support this. I believe deleting all the important updates like this, especially after knowing how much effort has been put on it, suggests the negative intention behind those editors towards the Artist, as in to prevent him to gain more new fans. Thank you. Peach91 (talk) 13:31, 12 October 2025 (UTC)

@Peach91 Thank you for your comment. However, your rationale reflects a fundamental misunderstanding of how English Wikipedia operates. This platform is not meant to serve as a fan site or promotional outlet for any artist. Content inclusion is governed by community consensus and policy, not by fan interest or personal effort.

You included content where the subject made guest or one-time appearances on television shows. Per the established WP:CONSENSUS at WT:KO, such material is not permitted for inclusion on the English Wikipedia. This applies regardless of whether the information is, or was, supported by any reliable sources; per WP:VNOT, verifiability alone does not guarantee inclusion.

On English Wikipedia, ignoring or attempting to circumvent WP:CONSENSUS is considered WP:DISRUPTIVE EDITING, regardless of the intentions or the effort involved. Attempts to relabel such appearances to justify inclusion misrepresent their nature and are inconsistent with policy-based consensus. Repeated restoration of removed content is considered WP:DISRUPTIVE EDITING and WP:EDITWAR, both of which are blockable offenses; doing so, whether by logging out to edit or by creating another account, constitutes sockpuppetry, which is likewise blockable.

If you disagree with this consensus, the correct course of action is to propose a change at WT:KO and obtain WP:CONSENSUS before making any restoration. However, please note that posting a proposal does not grant permission to restore the content, does not imply immediate consensus, and the absence of replies does not indicate consensus. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 13:57, 12 October 2025 (UTC)

Thank you for your reply. First of all, I admit that I chose the wrong wording, such as "fans", which made my neutrality seemed questionable. I would also thank you for informing me about all the policies of Wikipedia that I was not aware of.

However, apart from this, I believe this page in general is outdated already. It fails to convey the career progress of the artist as of 2025, as well as the artist's influence and public recognition. His appearances on various variety shows on the last few years have made an huge, positive impact on his solo career, but unfortunately this page did not reflect this side of his career. If adding appearances as guest is not allowed, then I believe it still should be re-written and mentioned somewhere else. e.g on the narration above. I believe being a good editor is not just about deleting the edits that did not follow the policies, but also about being able to accept new data provided and re-directing it into a more acceptable form that is allowed by the policies. Thank you for your effort to be a good editor. I hope you could make further updates on this page that actually reflect his career progress as of 2025. Peach91 (talk) 15:25, 12 October 2025 (UTC)

@Peach91 Thank you for your follow-up. Please note that my earlier reply was a procedural response based on existing consensus and policy. Discussions and decisions on content inclusion are determined by community consensus at relevant guideline pages (in this case, WT:KO) and not by individual editors. Regarding the article itself, English Wikipedia encourages keeping content's up to date on the subject's career. However, such updates must still comply with established policies and editorial standards. To clarify further, the consensus at WT:KO applies not only to the table format but also to prose content within the article; therefore, such material cannot be included. If you wish to update or restructure the article to better summarize recent developments, you are free to do so in line with established policies and consensus. If you are unsure whether a proposed addition complies with those standards, feel free to raise the matter on the article’s talk page first for input. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 16:12, 12 October 2025 (UTC)

Thank you for the reply. Please also note that my criticism about the page being outdated was not only about the guest appearances, but was about the whole page in general, especially about the achievements he has made in the variety show area. I know that his main job is a singer, but we can't deny the significance of variety shows in his career and thus should be given more highlight. Even the Jeongwaja program that has made him gain a lot of public recognition was not mentioned at all on the narration. I don't mind my edits being deleted if they're against the policies and/or have little to no impact on his career. However considering the significance of the variety shows on his career, I believe it should be highlighted more. And as an editor, you should have cared about it, even before I said it.

Also, are you perhaps a bot? I see that you care so much about making sure that this page is in line with all the policies, but you seem to have no intention in making this page updated. If you want to guard this page that much, then you should also take the responsibility of keeping this page updated, relevant, and reliable. For example, before I came and edited some, lots of information had no citation on, but no one bothered to add, including you. Also note that a lot of data you deleted were not added by me and had always been there all this time. It's just ridiculous that you didn't even care about this page before, but when someone tried to make updates, suddenly you're acting like you care and delete almost everything under the name of policies. Please show that you actually care about the actual contents of this page and show your real contribution as an editor, and not only busy guarding the policies. Thank you. Peach91 (talk) 19:04, 12 October 2025 (UTC)

@Peach91 I am an editor, just like you, and my focus here is on ensuring that the article complies with English Wikipedia's content and sourcing policies. Applying those policies consistently is part of maintaining the encyclopedia's reliability and neutrality. As such, my responses are made from a procedural standpoint. This article was flagged following the addition of guest or one-time appearances, which were not in line with existing community consensus. I understand your concern about the article's overall comprehensiveness, and you are welcome to improve or propose improvements that summarize the subject's recent career developments, provided they comply with established guidelines and policies. Please also note that some parts of your recent comments come close to breaching WP:NPA. Editors are required to "comment on content, not on the contributor"; please keep future discussions focused on the material itself. I believe the relevant policies and procedures have been sufficiently explained above, so I do not intend to reply further on this topic. This article is on my WP:WATCHLIST and I will continue to monitor it to ensure that established guidelines and policies are followed. Thanks and regards, — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 19:25, 12 October 2025 (UTC)

I see that you only "understand" my concerns, but have no intention in making improvements about it. I can now see why the page is not as relevant and up-to-date as it's supposed to be. It's such a shame that someone like me who actually cares about the page couldn't make updates due to the lack of knowledge about the policies, while "editors" like you who are knowledgeable enough about the policies refuse to take initiative to improve the page. Don't worry, I'm not an editor anymore. I won't make any more edits on the page, nor interact with you in the future, so don't worry about me violating policies. I'm just voicing my dissatisfaction as a casual reader of this page. I appreciate you for taking measures to ensure this article complies with the policies, but I hope you could make the same amount of effort in updating all the informations too. Thanks and good bye. Peach91 (talk) 23:42, 12 October 2025 (UTC)