Talk:LMS Stanier Class 8F

Suggestion for further expansion of this article

The 8Fs get very complicated (I can provide a citation for that if necessary). We already have a few articles, but I propose the following

• Stanier Class 8F on the type as a whole, explaining the differences between LMS and WD engines, listing in tables how they were built and eventually disposed of, with links to individual sub articles.
• LMS Stanier Class 8F to include:
  1. Engines built by the LMS
  2. Engines built to WD orders but taken into LMS stock
  3. Engines Requisitioned by the WD from the LMS (withdrawn from LMS stock and taken into WD stock)
  4. Those built to Railway Executive Committee order and officially taken into LMS stock, but some of those were then loaned to other railways.
  5. ex-LNER Class O6 taken into stock by the LMS
  6. locomotives acquired by British Railways directly from the WD in 1948 and 1957.
• WD Stanier Class 8F on the engines in WD stock (Tourret),
• LNER Class O6 on those built by the LNER but quickly withdrawn from LNER stock as they got LNER Class O7 Austerity 2-8-0s instead.
• TCDD 45151 Class - the Turkish engines
• FS Class 737 - the Italian engines
• Other foreign classes, especially Persian Railways Class 41 (as they were) and others. My knowledge is less good about these foreign classes. They were used mostly in Persia after the Anglo-Soviet invasion to supply Russia.
• Plus articles on the individual preserved 8Fs.

If anyone wants to comment on these changes or make suggestions, then please feel free.

The main references that will need to be cited are (sorry can't remember volumes off the top of my head):

• Pat Rowledge Engines of the LMS Built 1923-51
• Essery & Jenkinson; Illustrated Review of LMS locomotives vol () LMS standard classes
• Hunt, Essery, et al. LMS Locomotive Profiles
• Tourret Allied Military Locomotives of the Second World War
• Willie Yeadon, Yeadon's Register Vol (). (Austerity Classes)

If anyone has any further suggestions for references, then please --Tony May (talk) 16:23, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

48518's location

Would anyone say that No. 48518's is now at the East Lancashire Railway as its frames (minus wheels and cylinders) are now here? —Preceding unsigned comment added by DelinquentRoadHazards (talk • contribs) 20:34, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

What does this mean?

Under the "Preservation" section:

Eleven 8Fs, with an eighth member of the class been repatriated from Turkey.

That's obviously been garbled somewhere, but I don't know how to fix it. 86.136.249.153 (talk) 22:58, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

Seems to have begun with this edit, which was muddied with this edit. Two rows concerning alleged repatriations of WD no. 522 (which already had its own row) were added with this edit, but these are unsourced, so I've removed them again. Thus, I think that the "eleven" refers to the total number known to exist, not the number preserved, and that the "seven" refers to the number of preserved locos which actually ran in BR service. The "eighth member" would be LMS 8274/WD 348. I have tried to clarify that with this edit. --Redrose64 (talk) 14:35, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 6 August 2020

Unlock it on August 15th 2020 there are 775 LMS 8F's built not 852 rewrite it please . 2A00:23C6:B505:5800:8D:A535:CFB1:7124 (talk) 08:48, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ◢  Ganbaruby!  (Say hi!) 13:33, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 August 2020

2A00:23C6:B505:5800:31A7:123C:A5BB:F255 (talk) 19:32, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

Look I know I edited it but it's because you made a mistake you can unlock it on August 20th I will give you time to think ok you are not to blame it's only an accident ok

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Megan Barris (Lets talk📧) 20:26, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

Quantity built

An anonymous user (who uses several different IP addresses) has made several attempts on and since 31 July 2020 to alter the quantity built. The figure shown in the article in its present protected state is 852, and this is corroborated by at least four separate sources from reliable (or highly reliable) publishers:

• Cook, A.F. (1990). Greenwood, William (ed.). LMS Locomotive Design and Construction. Lincoln: RCTS. p. 88. ISBN 0-901115-71-1.
• Haresnape, Brian (May 1981) [1970]. Stanier Locomotives: A Pictorial History. Shepperton: Ian Allan. p. 62. ISBN 0-7110-1098-6. EX/0581.
• Hunt, David; Jennison, John; James, Fred; Essery, R.J. (2005). LMS Locomotive Profiles, no. 8 - The Class 8F 2-8-0s. Didcot: Wild Swan. p. 3. ISBN 1-905184-08-5.
• Rowledge, J.W.P. (1975). Engines of the LMS built 1923-51. Oxford: Oxford Publishing Co. p. 28. ISBN 0-902888-59-5.

All four of these explicitly state the quantity built as 852, so I would like to know how the IPs have arrived at the figure of 775. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 11:27, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

If it helps, I'll break down the 852 into four groups, based upon the information in the above four books:

Construction of LMS Stanier Class 8F

Organisation	Numbers	Quantity	Total
London, Midland and Scottish Railway	8000-8225	226
	8301-8399	99
	8490-8495	6
LMS total			331
War Department	300-449	150
	500-524	25
	540-571	32
	623	1
War Dept total			208
Railway Executive Committee	8400-8479	80
	8500-8559	60
	8600-8704	105
REC total			245
London and North Eastern Railway	7651-7675	25
	3125-3167	43
LNER total			68
Grand total			852

--Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 14:39, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 August 2020

Your fired for 80 years 2A00:23C6:B505:5800:506C:F8F7:C8C6:58DF (talk) 10:39, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

You need to address the question which I posed in the section immediately above, or stop wasting time. Your repeated rants will not help your case one bit. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 12:03, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

Overseas service: losses at sea

The infobox says 23 lost at sea. This doesn't tally with the figures in the "Overseas service".

The "Construction" section says four (former nos. 8066/8/71/87) were lost in the Irish Sea whilst being shipped in 1941

The Egypt subsection says some having been lost at sea en route (246-304, 322, 370, 371, 415, 416, 428, 429, 444 & 445). Assuming that "246-" is a prefix and not a range, this comes to ten; but 444 & 445 are also listed in the Iran subsection, making eight.

The Iran subsection says 163 8F were dispatched to Iran in 1941-42, but only 143 arrived (12 being lost at sea (246-444, 445, 608, 617, 619, 622 (latter 4 former LMS 8066, 8068, 8071, 8087)) and 8 returned to Britain with sea damage). Again, assuming that "246-" is a prefix and not a range, this comes to six, of which 444 & 445 are also in the Egypt list, and the other four are described in the "Construction" section.

The Turkey subsection says seven of these were lost at sea en route (338, 343-345, 354-356.

I make that 8 + 6 + 7 = 21. Clearly the discrepancy is due to 444 & 445 being listed twice, but that doesn't explain the Iran phrase "12 being lost at sea" when only six are listed. --Redrose64 🦌 (talk) 13:07, 2 January 2026 (UTC)