Talk:Kim Jong Il

Koryo-saram?

Just realized; can he really be considered a Koryo-saram? To my understanding, Koryo-saram aren't just Soviet Koreans (of which there are also Sakhalin Koreans, who are often excluded from the Koryo-saram label), they're Koreans who were subjected to the 1937 nationalities deportations. None of the Kim family was subject to this deportation.

Is there any reliable sources calling him as such? It doesn't appear that there's any on the article itself. I may just remove altogether for now; please revert and discuss if disagree. toobigtokale (talk) 08:16, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Lead image

@Freedoxm: I, or anyone else, do not need the community's prior approval for changing the lead image of an article. Reverting an edit without providing a reason beyond "no consensus" is simply stonewalling. The community consensus around the lead image is simply that it shouldn't be a posthumous portrait, which I respected. Please provide a genuine reason for why the 2011 image (near the end of his death) is worth keeping over the 2000 image (near the middle of his career). ―Howard • 🌽³³ 16:53, 21 June 2025 (UTC)

@Howardcorn33: I reverted your edit to the 2000 image, since the 2011 image is more recent and the 2011 image has been there for many years unchanged. Therefore, I don't see a reason why the 2000 image should be changed, other than "replaced lead img with a portrait at a healthier age". The 2011 image is not posthumous and wasn't made by the state-run Mansudae Art Studio (you did highlight that the 2011 image was near his death). Again, my edit was not stonewalling, nor was it WP:RECENTISM. If you prefer to, go ahead and revert my edit again if you believe that this reason was still not genuine enough, but I won't be reverting again to avoid an WP:EDITWAR. Freedoxm (talk · contribs) 19:14, 21 June 2025 (UTC)

Ok, I will reinsert the 2000 image as it was taken during the height of his power, a more notable period of his reign. The 2011 image should not be used as it was taken during a period where his health and faculty was in noticeable decline. ―Howard • 🌽³³ 19:34, 21 June 2025 (UTC)

I disagree with the change per MOS:IMAGEQUALITY. The 2011 photo shows Kim's face clearly and his body facing the camera, while the new image is cropped from a 2000 photo where his body is facing partially to his left and light is reflecting off his glasses and teeth. I don't think Kim looks particularly awful in the 2011 photo, but if showing the dear leader in his most ideal light was in the spirit of MOS:IMAGEQUALITY, then we'd be using the official drawn portraits (which other users have pushed before). Yue🌙 04:13, 23 June 2025 (UTC)

MOS:IMAGEQUALITY doesn't apply here. I compared both images and see nearly no difference in clarity. Freedoxm (talk · contribs) 16:02, 23 June 2025 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

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Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 20:27, 25 June 2025 (UTC)

Birth year change reverted

I just reverted a change of the birth year: Diff/1321616063. His year of birth seems to be a bit unclear and hard/impossible to accurately pin down:

• Talk:Kim Jong Il/Archive 6 § Birth year
• Talk:Kim Jong Il/archive 5 § Birth Year
• Talk:Kim Jong Il/Archive 5 § Birth Date
• Talk:Kim Jong Il/Archive 4 § Birth place and date

The year of birth doesn't seem to be clearly sourced in the article either. It's probably best to leave it as it is, unless someone has a WP:RS that they can reference. --Gurkubondinn _(talk) 17:17, 11 November 2025 (UTC)

Left a similar comment on the temporary account's talk page: User talk:~2025-32826-40 § Kim Jong Il birth year. --Gurkubondinn _(talk) 17:18, 11 November 2025 (UTC)