Talk:Justin Joyner

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. Track your hook after promotion. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: rejected, closed by Launchballer (talk) 08:52, 8 June 2026 (UTC)

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Justin Joyner

• ... that the Oregon State men's basketball coach (pictured) is coaching the Michigan Wolverines during the 2026 NCAA tournament?

• Source: https://www.mlive.com/wolverines/basketball/2026/03/michigan-basketball-assistant-takes-head-coaching-job.html#:~:text=Justin%20Joyner%20has%20agreed%20to,is%20a%20national%20championship%20contender.

• • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Kaneza Schaal
  • Comment: 2nd QPQ use for this nomination

Moved to mainspace by Butters.From.SouthPark (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 389 past nominations.

TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:57, 19 March 2026 (UTC).

• P.S. I'd like to make sure that User:Butters.From.SouthPark and I are both credited for this nomination.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:01, 19 March 2026 (UTC)

Joyner at a game between the Michigan Wolverines and the Northwestern Wildcats

Joyner at a Feb 2026 game

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy compliance:

• Adequate sourcing: - n
• Neutral:
• Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook eligibility:

• Cited:
• Interesting:
• Other problems:

Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
Freely licensed: Used in article: Clear at 100px:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: There is currently a citation needed tag at the end of the second paragraph in the "Playing career" section. This needs to be corrected. Additionally I have a query about their role at Oregon State University. Have they started in the role or are they taking it up once they finish their duties with Michigan? Ps, I think the image is clear but Joyner looks very small in it. Perhaps better to go with a crop if this is chosen as the image hook (which I will attach). TarnishedPath^talk 01:18, 20 March 2026 (UTC)

• I've added content about the transition period expections.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:51, 20 March 2026 (UTC)
• Thx for the crop.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:51, 20 March 2026 (UTC)
• added WP:IC.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:57, 20 March 2026 (UTC)
• I am not sure what needs to be done, but make sure both User:Butters.From.SouthPark and I are credited.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 06:21, 20 March 2026 (UTC)

@TonyTheTiger:, thanks for those updates, especially the clarification of Joyner's current relationship to both Michigan and Oregon, which is what I kind of read out of the article without being entirely sure. To me that leads to an issue with the hook, because as currently written it suggest that he will be actively coaching both teams when they play against each other. I think you need a new hook. TarnishedPath^talk 06:32, 20 March 2026 (UTC)

• ALT1 ... that the Oregon State men's basketball head coach (pictured) is serving as a coach for the Michigan Wolverines during the 2026 NCAA tournament?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:21, 21 March 2026 (UTC)
• ALT2 ...one of the coaches for the Michigan Wolverines during the 2026 NCAA tournament is the Oregon State men's basketball head coach (pictured)?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:21, 21 March 2026 (UTC)

• User:TarnishedPath ??? play against each other? Where do you get that? I guess having the phrase "during the 2026 NCAA tournament" at the end makes it possible to interpret it as a referent to the whole sentence grammatically. Although I think ALT1 clarifies this, ALT2 is the most grammatical clarification in which "during the 2026 NCAA tournament" only refers to the Michigan part. N.B. He is actively a coach for both teams. I have changed the WP:LEAD of his article.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:21, 21 March 2026 (UTC)

ALT1 approved. TarnishedPath^talk 07:51, 21 March 2026 (UTC)

• User:TarnishedPath, I am thinking that in case Michigan loses on the 27th or 29th, maybe I should see if this is quirky enough for the April Fools queue?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:07, 24 March 2026 (UTC)

We could use ALT1a on April 1 if Michigan loses on March 27 or March 29.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:09, 24 March 2026 (UTC)

• ALT1a ... that the Oregon State men's basketball head coach (pictured) served as a coach for the Michigan Wolverines during the 2026 NCAA tournament?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:09, 24 March 2026 (UTC)

@TonyTheTiger:, that doesn't strike me as April 1 material. Aside from which, both of the April 1 queues are almost already full. TarnishedPath^talk 04:23, 24 March 2026 (UTC)

I have not seen the queues. This is a contextual misdirect of sorts. I don't think I have ever done an April Fools DYK nom, but I have read a few main pages. I don't think it is too far off. I may just be a bit late. I'll take a look at the other noms.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 06:28, 24 March 2026 (UTC)

Now that I think about it, if he is no longer a Michigan coach on April 1, which would be the case if Michigan loses on March 27 or March 29, it would lose its quirkyness.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 06:31, 24 March 2026 (UTC)

• ALT2a ... that one of the first duties of Oregon State men's basketball head coach (pictured) was to coach the Michigan Wolverines during the 2026 NCAA tournament?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 06:36, 24 March 2026 (UTC)
• We will need an alternate phrasing if Michigan loses before we run the hook. So let's think about how that would look. What do you think about 2a?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 06:39, 24 March 2026 (UTC)
• ALT3a ... that the Michigan was coached by the Oregon State head coach (pictured)?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 06:47, 24 March 2026 (UTC)

3a is a terser April 1 format.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 06:47, 24 March 2026 (UTC)

• User talk:TarnishedPath, what do you think about 2a and 3a as alternatives if Michigan loses this weekend?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 17:32, 24 March 2026 (UTC)

@TonyTheTiger: ALT2a seems fine to me as an alternative given it is the easiest to understand. TarnishedPath^talk 00:22, 25 March 2026 (UTC)

User:TarnishedPath, what about the April 1 version (3a), if I want to try to file it there? That seems to be April fools style to me. Do you still reject even that form for April 1?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC)

@TonyTheTiger:, the 1 April sets are now full. It is possible that we could have ALT3b ... that Michigan was coached by the Oregon State head coach (pictured)? (I've just removed "the" from the front of Michigan from your ALT3a) as an 1 April hook; howver you'd likely be waiting 12 months for that now. TarnishedPath^talk 04:27, 25 March 2026 (UTC)

Alternatively that could run as a quirky hook at anytime, because it's not technically incorrect. TarnishedPath^talk 04:29, 25 March 2026 (UTC)

I am going to summarize this confusion of three cases of approved hooks:

• ALT1 ... that the Oregon State men's basketball head coach (pictured) is serving as a coach for the Michigan Wolverines during the 2026 NCAA tournament?-approved for use while Joyner is still Michigan coach (Michigan still alive in the 2026 NCAA Division I men's basketball tournament)
• ALT2a ... that one of the first duties of Oregon State men's basketball head coach (pictured) was to coach the Michigan Wolverines during the 2026 NCAA tournament?-approved for use if Joyner is no longer a Michigan coach (Michigan has lost a game or won the tournament before the hook runs)
• ALT3b ... that Michigan was coached by the Oregon State head coach (pictured)?- also for use if no longer coach but in a format that could be used for April 1.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 06:48, 25 March 2026 (UTC)
• Michigan is still alive. Here's to hoping for another crack at the Dukies. No April Fools run for this guy.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 22:29, 29 March 2026 (UTC)
  • Maybe this is down to a quirk of basketball I don't understand, but both hooks seem to misrepresent the situation. As I understand it, Joyner's current job is as an assistant coach for Michigan. He has signed a contract to take over as the Oregon coach when Michigan's competition concludes, but that does not mean we can refer to him as the "Oregon State men's basketball head coach" (implying currently) in wikivoice. I would not promote either hook. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 15:30, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
    • Yes maybe you don't understand. He has two jobs until Michigan's season is over. The new job has started. He has already had a press conference (March 16) to formalize his new hiring (March 11). So both hooks are completely factual. He has ongoing duties as a Michigan basketball coach and he is currently the Oregon State coach. He can't be at OSU "on a day-to-day basis" due to the Michigan job. A point of confusion may be the were the source says "Joyner can make strides on the recruiting trail, as soon as his time at Michigan comes to an end". The issue is that the portal does not open until after the tournament. He is the OSU head coach. No press says anything like the future or soon-to-be head coach. As of March 11 he had been hired with the press conference to make it official on March 16.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 17:49, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
• Further to that point. In terms of when wikipedia recognizes team personel changes, it is always determined by an official announcement by the team or the league. I.e., this post from the team is sufficient as irrefutable proof that he is Oregon State head coach per wikipedia basketball (and most sports that I am involved in editing) editors. So is this co-post from the team and the league.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 19:57, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
  • User:AirshipJungleman29, are you onboard with standard determination of team personel changes?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:25, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
    • Those two sources clearly indicate that he is not yet the Oregon head coach through their use of the future tense. This says "has been named the next head coach...Joyner will come to Oregon State." I don't have time to watch the video, but the description also says "the next head coach".
    • I don't know how it works with you, but where I'm from, when you change jobs, you are still an employee of your earlier company even if you have agreed to start with a new company on a later date. I remember a similar case with Endrick, where Real Madrid agreed a deal to sign him 18 months ahead of his actual joining. But that did not mean that he was a Real Madrid player whose first duty was to play 18 months with another club, he was a Palmeiras player who had agreed a contract, and our Wikipedia article reflected that. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 21:38, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
      • He did come to Oregon State on March 16 to be announced as the the new head coach at the introductory press conference.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 22:42, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
        • At the March 16 press conference university president Jayathi Murthy starts the video with the "Introduction of OSU new men's head basketball coach" at the 8 second mark of the video.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 23:12, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
        • At the March 16 press conference athletic director Scott Barnes also uses the term new head coach at 3:25 mark. He uses present tense "is the right leader" 4:49 mark-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 23:12, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
        • this is how Sports Illustrated interpreted the press conference: "The Wayne Tinkle era is over. Now, Justin Joyner is in charge."-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 23:12, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
• User:AirshipJungleman29, Check out the video. He may have been the next coach on March 11 to come in the future. But he came to the press conference and was announced as the new coach in the present tense.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 23:22, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
  • Honestly, you and I are here to assess secondary sources like the Sports Illustrated piece I presented above. Although I can point you to the primary video, we should go by the secondary source.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 23:26, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
    • Conclusive source analysing his contract: "Joyner, who is remaining on staff at Michigan during the NCAA Tournament, will formally begin his tenure [at Oregon] the day after the Wolverines’ season ends." Good to know that basic employment logic applies in America too. New hooks needed TonyTheTiger. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 23:29, 30 March 2026 (UTC)

• ALT4 ... that one of Justin Joyner's (pictured) first duties after he was introduced as the new Oregon State head basketball coach was to coach the Michigan Wolverines during the 2026 NCAA tournament?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 01:20, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
  • I am not sure if who this needs to be approved by @TarnishedPath and AirshipJungleman29:-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 01:43, 31 March 2026 (UTC)

I'll leave this to @AirshipJungleman29:, given that they have raised concerns. Noting however, that this is still sitting in the WP:SOHA for April 6. TarnishedPath^talk 02:07, 31 March 2026 (UTC)

If Michigan makes the championship game it is April 6 8:30PM in Indianapolis, which is April 7 0:30 (UTC). We should actually move this to April 7 SOHA.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:16, 31 March 2026 (UTC)

• , User:AirshipJungleman29, Although, I am fairly certain that 1. WP:CBB would go by this page as confirmation of his status as head coach and that 2. CBB would side with a secondary source refering to a primary source (school or league announcement) as opposed to a secondary source of a legal document written by private lawyers, I have a time-sensative new ALT that needs to be reviewed.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:48, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
  • I'm not sure what CBB has to do with this or why the writers of the bulletin board would be unable to read simple facts, but anyway ... again, ALT4 implies that coaching Michigan would be a duty for Oregon, when the two contracts are unrelated. Would be better as ALT4a: ... that after Justin Joyner held a press conference as the next Oregon State head basketball coach, he immediately returned to coach the Michigan Wolverines through a tournament? Does that work TonyTheTiger? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 12:07, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
  • Important also that the article is corrected to match the current status of Joyner's job. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 14:29, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
    • User:AirshipJungleman29, WP:CBB should have been WP:WPCBB, which would go by this page the moment it went live and say per the University he is their basketball coach now regardless of any other press. Regardless, The actual words of the OSU President Jayathi Murthy and OSU athletic director Scott Barnes at the March 16 press conference was new. So why would we use the term next?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 14:52, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
      • Well, if that's true, then WP:WPCBB have no business editing Wikipedia articles. Fortunately, it looks like they're much more sane.
      • As to why we use "next" instead of "new", please see your above comment. Thanks, ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 14:57, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
        • You are going with a way lower WP:V source. We have a video of the primary event where the important people use the word new. A secondary source of the public domain press conference uses the word new (even in its article title). We have a second primary source of the University's own web site presenting him as the current coach. The secondary source you are citing is an interpretation of a private document, that the reader has to WP:AGF. We have a public domain primary event using the word new and reported on in a WP:RS secondary source as new as well as a public facing official website declaration of his status as head coach. Then, we have a private document that we have to AGF that has contradictory information.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 15:10, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
• Joyner is already hiring his assistant coaches, which means he is already performing as head coach. He has surely been interviewing other candidates (he can hire up to 5 assistant coaches and other staff), and communicating to attempt to retain player personel.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 15:15, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
  • User:AirshipJungleman29 Ping-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 18:17, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
    • Original research misrepresenting the facts, as clearly laid out by a reliable secondary source, to push a clickbait hook as quickly as possible with no regard for the truth. Once again: "Joyner, who is remaining on staff at Michigan during the NCAA Tournament, will formally begin his tenure the day after the Wolverines’ season ends." This is from a Memorandum of Understanding released by OSU. Advertising of the sort you are happily participating in, as you have done in the past, has no place at DYK. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 18:38, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
• I don't understand what you are talking about. What are you saying is WP:OR? Advertising?? What?? Past?? Does an accusation make it so? Is that a WP:COI accusation?
  • ALT5a: ... that after Justin Joyner (pictured) held a press conference as the newly hired Oregon State head basketball coach, he immediately returned to coach the Michigan Wolverines through a tournament?
  • User:AirshipJungleman29, You say next. I say new. Can we agree he is newly hired? P.S. I good percentage of DYK hooks are designed as clickbait.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 18:51, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
    • I have rewritten the article based on the facts available through secondary sources, not on your original analysis of press conferences. ALT5a is now acceptable, alongside the trimmed version ALT5b: ... that after holding a press conference as Oregon State's new head coach, Justin Joyner (pictured) returned to coach the Michigan Wolverines through a tournament? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 19:22, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
      • I don't think ALT5b actually matches the content, but I support 5b. I think you have incorrectly edited the article.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:39, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
      • Upon further inspection, I think 5a should be used because the word basketball in the hook will be relevant on one of the biggest basketball nights of the year.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 02:17, 1 April 2026 (UTC)
• User:AirshipJungleman29 thx for your prompt attention to the clarifying the updated content.
  1. We have a source saying his job at this time of year is essentially to "retain players, to build a staff, and to prepare for the transfer portal". Building a staff results in news in the positive outcome of a successful hire and no news in unsuccessful hiring attempts. Retaining players results in no news in the positive out come of retaining a player and news in the negative outcome of not retaining a player. The implication is that retaining players is his job as coach and player losses are his failures. In general, player losses would not be very encyclopedic, but in this case where there are competing claims of his status as current or future new coach, I presented them to show that he is already performing coaching duties (although we only see negative outcomes). Are you sure they are not encyclopedic in this case?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 18:57, 5 April 2026 (UTC)
  2. The Lippi source actually says "Justin Joyner has added another assistant to his inaugural staff at Oregon State." and half the article is quotes from Joyner. Why are you rephrasing as if his staff came to be rather than he built a staff?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 18:57, 5 April 2026 (UTC)
• @AirshipJungleman29 and TonyTheTiger: Do y'all agree on one of 5a or 5b? If not, I'm just going to close as timed out. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 22:53, 24 May 2026 (UTC)
  • I'm fine with both, it's Tony who raised objections. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 23:00, 24 May 2026 (UTC)
    • Run it.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:15, 25 May 2026 (UTC)
• Pulled per issues raised at WT:DYK#Justin Joyner. As this nomination is long past two months old, I am marking this for closure per DYKTIMEOUT. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 08:17, 8 June 2026 (UTC)