Talk:Jusapa

Creating a Skeleton Article

Added a history header with a subheader on origin. Added an activity header, with a student movement subheader. Added a criticism header. Content was based off of the Korean Wikipedia sister-article of the same name (주체사상파). Some research was done to substantiate some claims, but others I marked as unclear or needed references I could not find. I re-arranged some content which seemingly was under the wrong header on the Korean article. Strangejames (talk) 19:42, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

Requested move 2 September 2025

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. – robertsky (talk) 17:42, 24 September 2025 (UTC)

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Juche faction → Jusapa – I unilaterally moved this article from Juchesasangpa (literally Juche Idea faction / camp) four years ago, as I thought it was less helpful for English readers to keep sasang and pa untranslated. Unlike Juche, those terms are not typically left untranslated. However, I recently reassessed English-language sources (including those published since the move in 2021) and determined that Jusapa (the Korean abbreviation of Juchesasangpa) is the common name (see for example, Google Ngram results). There is also a hotel in Spain named Jusapa, but even if one only looks at mentions of Jusapa that include mentions of Korea, Jusapa is still the dominant name in English-language sources. I therefore propose a move to Jusapa. Yue🌙 04:20, 2 September 2025 (UTC) — Relisting. Jeffrey34555 (talk) 04:02, 9 September 2025 (UTC) — Relisting. Tenshi! (Talk page) 15:37, 17 September 2025 (UTC)

Comment Do you know of scholarly sources that use this term? I flipped around my academic book library and couldn't find mentions of any of the term's variants grapesurgeon (seefooddiet) (talk) 03:03, 3 September 2025 (UTC)

Extremely easy to find results on Google Scholar. Here’re the first two for me.

1. The ND and PD camp followed Leninism, while the NL (National Liberation) camp adhered to Jucheism. It should be noted that the category NL included Jusapa as well as all radical nationalists who did not necessarily subscribe to Kim Il-Sung's Juche ideology.
2. The group Jusapa (Juche Ideology Faction), which advocated the juche ideology of… ]

Docentation (talk) 16:49, 17 September 2025 (UTC)

The two examples you link are good.

Just a note about some of the other ones in Scholar: need to be careful about their translations/romanizations at face value.

WP:KO/RS: Many journals provide English-language abstracts, but they are often written by people who do not have a good grasp of English, and should be avoided.

Often journals will make up misleading or even flat out incorrect translations or romanizations. If you flip through some of them from Korean publications the prose is often really poor and they're not even primarily English-language publications so arguably shouldn't be counted towards WP:COMMONNAME. grapesurgeon (seefooddiet) (talk) 17:00, 17 September 2025 (UTC)

@Grapesurgeon: All of the scholarly sources I found that used Jusapa were crudely translated from Korean. In contrast, however, I found none that used Juche faction, but that just may be a bad search on my part. I am in favour of closing this proposal as no consensus with this now in mind and if nobody else can find additional supporting material. Yue🌙 01:30, 18 September 2025 (UTC)

@Yue aren't the two sources given by Docentation above valid English-language attestations in works with reasonable prose?

Still, even with just these attestations it's not looking like there's a widespread consensus in sources. This really could go either way; if you want to go no consensus I'll support you. I'd be willing to support a move as well. grapesurgeon (seefooddiet) (talk) 01:38, 18 September 2025 (UTC)

@Grapesurgeon: Well, I know for sure Jusapa is more common in non-academic sources, e.g. news and magazine articles, perhaps because it is used as a pejorative rather than a formal term in some works. I also have no strong feelings either way, if the move goes forward or not. However, moving from Juchesasangpa back then was definitely the right move. Yue🌙 01:43, 18 September 2025 (UTC)

We're also probably in the realm of WP:KO-TRANSLATENAME too. There's begrudgingly a lot of flexibility at this level of attestation. grapesurgeon (seefooddiet) (talk) 01:55, 18 September 2025 (UTC)

I am not sure what the problem or mystery is meant to be; this is all very easily found by going through the thirty-five results from the Google Scholar link. Here are the first ten.

1. English-language abstract only.
2. English-language abstract only.
3. English-language article, Critical Sociology (English-language journal).
4. English-language article, Asian Survey (English-language journal).
5. English-language preprint, non-Korean author, at least acceptable English.
6. English-language article, Journal of Asian Security and International Affairs (English-language journal).
7. English-language article, Journal of Asian and African Studies (English-language journal).
8. English-language article, Issues and Insights (English-language journal).
9. English-language grey literature, acceptable English.
10. English-language article (original Google Scholar link broken), acceptable English.

I’ll leave you to inspect the English of the remaining twenty-five.

1. English-language thesis.
2. [CITATION] 2008 Chotbul jiphoe chamyeoja-ui inyeomjeok jeonghyang: chinbuk banmi jusapa hogeun ban sinjayujuui presumably Korean-language article.
3. looks like English-language abstract only.
4. English-language article.
5. English-language book chapter.
6. English-language article.
7. English-language article.
8. English-language preprint.
9. English-language article.
10. English-language book.
11. English-language article.
12. English-language article.
13. English-language thesis.
14. English-language book chapter.
15. English-language book chapter.
16. English-language book.
17. French-language article.
18. English-language working paper.
19. duplicate of #20.
20. English-language article.
21. English-language thesis.
22. English-language thesis.
23. English-language thesis, result of incorrect transcription (‘jumps’ not ‘Jusapa’).
24. English-language thesis.
25. a Latin text, probably either coincidence or incorrect OCR.

That covers all the results. By my count that makes

• 13 English-language articles,
• 3 English-language book chapters,
• 2 English-language books,
• 6 English-language theses,
• 2 English-language preprints, and
• 1 English-language preprint

giving a sum of 27 sources on Google Scholar. By contrast, there are eight results in total (I’m not going to bother checking which ones are just abstracts) on Google Scholar for ‘Juche faction’. Docentation (talk) 18:59, 19 September 2025 (UTC)

Support Jusapa. I didn't perform the tally myself; there was no mystery, just someone needed to do the count. grapesurgeon (seefooddiet) (talk) 20:01, 19 September 2025 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Korea has been notified of this discussion. ASUKITE 15:51, 17 September 2025 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.