Talk:Josh Gracin

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was move. -- tariqabjotu (joturner) 00:07, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Requested move

Joshua Gracin → Josh Gracin

Survey

Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~

• Support - The change would reflect Gracin's most commonly known name --Rougher07 19:41, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
• Support - sure. Aye-Aye 22:48, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
• Support per nom. --Dhartung | Talk 09:00, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Discussion

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Vandalism?

The article states "Upon graduation from John Glenn High School in Westland, he joined the U.S Navy, and eventually became a supply clerk at Camp Pendleton outside of San Diego." He is a Marine, so this is inaccurate. I fixed it. Lesssthan 08:21, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Please fix the former Marine reference also. Once a Marine always a Marine. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.60.215.250 (talk) 15:43, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

This is not vandalism. I restored a reliably sourced version of the Josh Gracin article. Both children’s names have been published in reliable outlets (People, Yahoo, Country Music Nation). The removal citing WP:BLPNAME was misplaced because the names are already in the public domain through reliable coverage. My edit complied with sourcing and BLP policy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JoshGracin25 (talk • contribs) 05:36, 29 September 2025 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Josh Gracin

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Josh Gracin's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "mtv":

• From American Idol (season 7): Cantiello, Jim (2008-01-31). "Britney Spears' Ex-Boyfriend: The Next American Idol?". MTV.
• From Aerosmith: "The Aerosmith History 1969-2002". MTV.com. Retrieved March 25, 2008.
• From No Boundaries (song): "What Are The Lyrics To 'No Boundaries' About". Retrieved 2009-05-21.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 11:50, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

External links modified

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External links modified

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I have just modified one external link on Josh Gracin. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100401151239/http://www.roughstock.com/blog/josh-gracin-signs-with-new-label to http://www.roughstock.com/blog/josh-gracin-signs-with-new-label

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Children’s names are verifiable in reliable sources

The recent removals citing WP:BLPNAME are misplaced. Both of Josh Gracin’s children’s names have been published in reliable sources including People, Yahoo, and Country Music Nation. Because these names are already in the public domain through reliable coverage, their inclusion is consistent with Wikipedia’s sourcing and BLP policies.

Please do not revert these sourced edits again without new policy-based justification. JoshGracin25 (talk) 05:34, 29 September 2025 (UTC)

Even if the names have been published, Wikipedia's practice is to withhold the children's names from the casual reader. Same for other family members that are not famous. The guideline says "The presumption in favor of privacy is strong in the case of family members of articles' subjects and other loosely involved, otherwise low-profile persons." We are also instructed to determine whether revealing the name "adds significant value". I don't see the value of adding the names of six children. Binksternet (talk) 14:24, 29 September 2025 (UTC)

Issues with current wording and timeline

The current wording in the "Personal life" section is unsourced, misleading, and does not accurately reflect the events as covered in reliable sources. It presents a garbled timeline of events that incorrectly portrays responsibility for the end of a prior marriage.

1. **Sourcing**: The current version relies on unsourced or poorly written material, whereas my proposed version includes citations from reliable outlets (People, Yahoo, Country Music Nation). Wikipedia policy (WP:V, WP:NPOV) requires that material be verifiable and neutrally presented.

2. **Timeline accuracy**: The dates of divorce and remarriage are a matter of public record (divorce decrees and marriage certificates are public documents). The current article does not align with those records, which gives a misleading impression. Editors should either cite the reliable sources that match the actual timeline or remove unsourced claims.

3. **Neutrality**: The existing text frames the breakdown of the marriage as one-sided, in a way not supported by the sources. This misrepresentation has reputational impact and violates WP:NPOV. My proposed text uses neutral language backed by citations.

I request that future edits to this section rely only on verifiable published sources and reflect a neutral account of events, without unsourced or misleading statements. If necessary, I am happy to list specific citations again here for discussion. JoshGracin25 (talk) 05:49, 29 September 2025 (UTC)

Allowing inaccurate information

The current sentence misstates events. Sources conflict: TMZ reported a “5150 hold,” but multiple reliable outlets subsequently report that after discharge he voluntarily checked into an inpatient facility. I’ve updated the wording to reflect both, with attribution, per WP:BLP and WP:V. Please don’t revert to a version that asserts a forced hold without clear attribution.

Cites: • TMZ initial report (5150): • Follow-ups noting voluntary check-in after discharge: Billboard; Washington Post; TV Guide; TheWrap; Extra. JoshGracin25 (talk) 06:03, 29 September 2025 (UTC)

BLPN report filed

I’ve opened a BLPN report regarding the personal life section. The report cites ChildrenWillListen for reverting a neutral, sourced timeline and FifteenThousandTwoHundred for adding more speculative language. Please review the BLPN discussion. JoshGracin25 (talk) 09:09, 29 September 2025 (UTC)

Neutral timeline edit and WP:BLP concerns

I need to note that the repeated reversions of my neutral, sourced timeline are becoming disruptive. My edits comply with WP:BLP by removing speculative language and citing reliable secondary outlets (Billboard, People, TMZ, Tennessean). In contrast, speculative additions have been allowed to stand, and accusations of COI have been made without any evidence. This looks less like policy enforcement and more like unequal treatment, which is creating a hostile editing environment. I am asking for editors to address this fairly and focus on verifiable, neutral content in line with Wikipedia’s policies. JoshGracin25 (talk) 09:38, 29 September 2025 (UTC)

Personal life

The personal life section has been removed pending consensus. Is the personal life section as seen at Special:PermanentLink/1314018905#Personal life, verifiable, neutral, and due? And is there support or opposition to restoring it? I believe it is blp-compliant and would support restoring it. Pinging recent editors which have made edits to the section in question: @ToBeFree, Escape Orbit, JoshGracin25, Augmented Seventh, ChildrenWillListen, and Binksternet. fifteen thousand two hundred twenty four (talk) 10:45, 29 September 2025 (UTC)

The section has some very minor problems I would fix but in general it is suitable for inclusion according to policy. I would remove the unneeded descriptor "his wife of 13 years" and I would remove the announcement of child number five, keeping only the birth of child five and child six. Binksternet (talk) 14:29, 29 September 2025 (UTC)

The suicide thing looks like WP:BLPGOSSIP at first glance, but we have a few sources supporting it, and with some more we aren't using (, , , , , etc.) The subsequent divorce seems important too, since he lost half his music rights because of it. @JoshGracin25 (or their chatbot) says there's some speculative language in that paragraph, but everything looks alright to me. With no clue what we're supposed to do, we could just condense that section and copyedit. Children Will Listen (🐄 talk, 🫘 contribs) 14:30, 29 September 2025 (UTC)

Outside of Binksternet's suggestion, the only way I see to condense further is to possibly remove "Relations with his wife soured" (that is made apparent later) and "the note went viral after being tipped off to TMZ". The remaining length is necessitated by WP:NPOV when trying to provide balanced coverage. fifteen thousand two hundred twenty four (talk) 04:37, 30 September 2025 (UTC)

Pinging another editor who has recently contributed to help form consensus: @Mmemaigret fifteen thousand two hundred twenty four (talk) 08:14, 30 September 2025 (UTC)

I hadn't see the earlier Personal life section, although I've since removed other info about his personal life from the article that seemed extraneous.

If I were to keep anything from the previous Personal life section, it would be limited to:

Personal life

Gracin married Ann Marie [maiden name] in [year]. The couple have three daughters and one son. The pair divorced in [2014] after 13 years of marriage. Gracin married second wife, Katie Weir, in May 2017. His single "Nothin' Like Us" is about their relationship. Gracin and his second wife have one son and one daughter.

MmeMaigret (talk) 10:09, 30 September 2025 (UTC)

Do you not find the note and surrounding events to be due coverage? It was widely reported upon in reliable sources such as . fifteen thousand two hundred twenty four (talk) 10:14, 30 September 2025 (UTC)

It just seems tabloidy to me without any lasting relevance. Even still, it can be a lot shorter, eg.

Relations with his wife soured and Gracin left a facebook post that some say "[read] like a suicide note" and he was placed on a psychiatric hold. Gracin later maintained the note was just "poorly worded" separation letter. MmeMaigret (talk) 17:47, 30 September 2025 (UTC)

That shortened version isn't ideal for a few reasons. "Some say" goes against MOS:WEASEL, which is why I added attributed statements to the prior version. "Relations with his wife soured" is somewhat editorial, and as mentioned above I'd support its removal if the section is restored, the mention of the divorce later paints the same picture in a more verifiable and due manner. And finally, mentioning the hold without also mentioning the checkout and subsequent voluntary inpatient could provide an incomplete picture and portray Gracin as having had less agency in the situation than in reality. fifteen thousand two hundred twenty four (talk) 18:42, 30 September 2025 (UTC)

I've already stated my position. The information isn't encyclopaedic. I don't see any reason for it, period. MmeMaigret (talk) 19:05, 30 September 2025 (UTC)

Since this is on my watchlist, I almost reverted the first edits. I for the most part agree that the previous version was better than one proposed by User:JoshGracin25. Had I really read through it before, I would have removed all of the children's names per WP:NONAME. I think the modified version that was removed should be added back since it is backed up by reliable sources and is neutral. The sentence "Relations with his wife soured." should be removed. Editorially, the changes I would make is that all of the information about his marriage to his second wife should be in one paragraph, moving the sentences starting with "In October 2015..." into the next paragraph. Aspects (talk) 07:21, 1 October 2025 (UTC)

As it has been a week since the last comment here, and there appears to be consensus, four to two, to restore the section with minor changes made, I've restored the section with the discussed changes in this edit.

I made a subsequent edit to make changes which were not discussed here, removing two unsourced statements and replacing a reference to WP:TMZ. I think these subsequent changes are fairly uncontroversial, but if anyone objects please feel free to revert. fifteen thousand two hundred twenty four (talk) 20:59, 8 October 2025 (UTC)

Official website?

A lot of claims in the article are currently sourced to https://www.joshgracin.com. However, the site resources are broken and has spammy content like Best Music Essay Writing Services in 2025 on the front page. The infobox says that https://joshgracinofficial.com is the actual official site of Josh Gracin. @JoshGracin25, do you know anything about this? Children Will Listen (🐄 talk, 🫘 contribs) 01:12, 30 September 2025 (UTC)

Www.joshgracinoffical.com is the website. The original was stolen and being squatted on in spite of repeated attempts to track down the squatters. JoshGracin25 (talk) 02:30, 30 September 2025 (UTC)

@JoshGracin25: I have changed the official website and marked the old one as usurped, thanks so much for letting us know. Children Will Listen (🐄 talk, 🫘 contribs) 02:43, 30 September 2025 (UTC)

Thank you. For the record I am not Josh Gracin. I am a fan that has followed him from the beginning. I was the original owner of Joshgracin.com during his idol days before I voluntarily signed over the website to his first label. I am asking you to please allow the edit with just the neutral timeline of events. If any of you knew the damage she has done to him and his career you would understand. The time line edit is straight forward with no speculative or embellishments. It also has the links to published articles. If the reader wants to dive deeper and read the articles they can make up their own mind without crafted language from the original edits implying personal events that impacted his career and his marriage which simply aren’t true. I can even over a compromise and have the edit added to with all article's attached. All I am asking for is let the reader decide based on reading the articles. Not the inserted language implying his wife divorced him because of an affair, to his close fans it’s actually quite the opposite. Thank you. JoshGracin25 (talk) 04:35, 30 September 2025 (UTC)

@JoshGracin25 your username appears to violate the username policy then, specifically WP:REALNAME which states that editors should "not edit under a name that is likely to imply that [they] are (or are related to) a specific, identifiable person, unless it is [their] real name." So while JoshGracin25 isn't compliant, a name like JoshGracinFan would be.

You can request a username change at WP:Changing username/Simple. fifteen thousand two hundred twenty four (talk) 08:10, 30 September 2025 (UTC)

Second album - query re release date

In March 2006, Gracin released his fourth single, "Favorite State of Mind." This was followed by the release of his second album, We Weren't Crazy. The album entered the country music charts in October 2007, and peaked at number 10 in August 2, 2008. The album was finally released on April 1, 2008.

When was the album released? MmeMaigret (talk) 05:46, 30 September 2025 (UTC)

We Weren't Crazy is both the name of a single and of the album that the single is on, it seems like the single and album have been confused here. The album released in 2008 , but an exact date is hard to find, the main article at We Weren't Crazy cites "https://archive.ph/20120707185857/http://countrymusic.about.com/od/cdreviewsal/fr/WeWerentCrazy.htm" which states "April 1, 2008". Note that about.com has been added to the global spam blacklist for misbehavior in 2023 and using it will require a request at WT:SWL. The single released and charted before 25 November 2007 , unsure of an exact date. fifteen thousand two hundred twenty four (talk) 08:46, 30 September 2025 (UTC)

Thanks @15224, I've revised that subsection. Cheers MmeMaigret (talk) 09:59, 30 September 2025 (UTC)