Talk:Jordan Harbinger

Source quality

User:Tryptofish I understand why you did this but the source quality on this page has been horrendous. I used a similarly crappy blog/podcast to source the "business breakup" but let's try to keep this bloggy stuff to a minimum... yes? Jytdog (talk) 20:16, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

This is not something I care much about, and I only took a look at it because of the discussion at your talk page. I have no intention of adding anything more. I basically agree about source quality, but in this case I think the source is reliable insofar as what the BLP subject thinks, and WP:BLP applies very much in this instance. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:23, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

It is a bit complicated BLP-wise because this person markets himself. He is the product. So again while I understand why you did this, the edit is essentially badly sourced marketing for him. I am not going to remove it but it is something we need to be careful with. Jytdog (talk) 20:42, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

If a BLP subject says that he does not want to be described as X any more, and it's reliably sourced that he says that, then his motivation for saying it is not normally a valid reason to imply that he still describes himself that way. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:50, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

We disagree with regard to that notion in this instance, where the person is the product, but as I said I am not going to contest the edit. Jytdog (talk) 21:03, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

I agree with Tryp on this, but I would note that the article nowhere states that he is a PUA. It states that his podcast was "originally on how to be a pickup artist". I think the specificity of that, combined with the disclaimer Tryp added is about as accurate as we can get. (I've watchlisted this page, so no need to ping me.) ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 22:16, 11 July 2018 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• Jordan Harbinger 2.jpg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. Community Tech bot (talk) 18:21, 13 July 2018 (UTC)

Making this less of a puff piece

This article needs so much work, there's even a Wiki warning on the top of the page to that effect, and yet User:DiamondRemley39 reverts even sensible edits. How does two articles (per Google search "jordan harbinger site:newsweek.com" constitute regular contributions? Why would we include that in an encyclopedia article except to inflate his accomplishments? And how is being kidnapped (the source being a single statement by Jordan himself, with no details or evidence) belong in the article, especially under a heading "Other work"? 2406:3400:311:F7E0:4D44:90CE:CB27:4A16 (talk) 01:35, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

Hello, User:2406:3400:311:F7E0:4D44:90CE:CB27:4A16. I'm one of the more recent watchers of this page. People love or hate Harbinger and the page gets excessively edited one way or another. Harbinger is several things, and one of those things is a writer, so we do mention his writing for notable publications such as newsweek. Some of your edits have been fine. For example, I removed the information about the state bar after reverting the other part of your edit. I also amended the wording of "regular contributor" to "contributor" or something like that. Harbinger has talked extensively of his kidnappings and it has been covered, albeit not extensively, in a reliable secondary source. If you'd like to change the name of the section or restructure it, please comment here. I hope this helps with some of the confusion. DiamondRemley39 (talk) 02:06, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

Addressing Flag Issues

It looks like there have been plenty of edits addressing the sensationalism and PR content on the page. Proceeding to remove the adequately addressed flag. 69.107.145.148 (talk) 12:55, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

I removed more of the PR/non-Wikipedia style writing and I do not object to the tag removal. DiamondRemley39 (talk) 02:44, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

To add to article

Basic information to add to this article (in order to help make it more properly encyclopedic): information about Harbinger's family background, parents, ethnic heritage, and early life prior to college. ~2025-31208-44 (talk) 23:43, 29 January 2026 (UTC)

Pickup artist

We can dig through references and the article history if needed, but my impression is that this is part of his notability. --Hipal (talk) 20:20, 8 May 2026 (UTC)

It seems to be adequately sourced and covered in the article body already. MrOllie (talk) 20:23, 8 May 2026 (UTC)

I agree. No 'personal vendettas' here as I was unaware of the subject until doing a random wiki search. The censorial edits are likely being done by a fan or someone with a BPOV. The subject himself states on his podcast description: "Mark and Jordan discuss how they evolved beyond their roots in the seedy pickup artist (PUA) scene". I'd argue that this direct self-admission of a label is a strong case for supporting third-party source claims. Aside that, 'Social dynamics expert' seems to be a PR friendly rebranding 'pickup artist', so it's worth watching out for spurious edits whitewashing that old name. MrEarlGray (talk) 15:14, 9 May 2026 (UTC)

This "pickup artist" issue is misunderstood, and therefore this shouldn't be labeling Harbinger as such. The source used for claiming he was a "pickup artist" doesn't even use the term.

The podcast description also doesn't say he claimed to be a "pickup artist" but that he was tied to the scene which is different from claiming a label for yourself. And articles show he was not a proponent of the term or the scene itself.

In this 2014 article, he sarcastically used the term in the title. The article itself has derogatory statements about the term and scene: "famous so-called 'pick-up artists'," "we're peripherally tied to the pick-up artist community," "closet misanthropes, deeply insecure, totally fraudulent," "con artists," "predicated on a massive lie," and "more influence from non-PUA thought leaders than anything positive from 'the community'."

The source used here from 2020 to support the claim doesn't even include the term "pickup artist." The article actually indicates he was not a proponent of the label or the pickup scene. It states that he would tell men, "She's not interested because you're clearly fronting and trying to look cool. She's sick of guys like you."

Because of these sources and WP:LEAD, the lead should be updated to only include the titles most relevant to him: American independent podcaster, host of The Jordan Harbinger Show, radio personality, and former Wall Street lawyer. Fidgetingspinerr (talk) 19:33, 25 June 2026 (UTC)

The source I have posted above explicitly states "Mark and Jordan discuss how they evolved beyond their roots in the seedy pickup artist (PUA) scene". If an individual admits they had their roots in the pickup artist scene, admits to being a pickup artist in other articles but only moves away from referring to himself as a pickup artist because the industry was criticised, why whitewash this history unless you're acting in bad faith to help the individual rebrand? MrEarlGray (talk) 07:02, 26 June 2026 (UTC)

As I said, this issue is misunderstood. I mentioned the source you posted and it does not state, explicitly or otherwise, that he claimed the label. Being involved with something does not mean a person is that title. I could be an admin assistant for a football coaching staff making me a part of the coaching “scene”. But that doesn’t mean I’m a coach. If you read the context, you see this in the sources I mentioned. You said, “admits to being a pickup artist in other articles.” Please show these other articles because the two sources on the page right now, do not say what you’re claiming. I explained that in my first post. Also, all of this is dated info anyway, so the term could possibly be in the article but in a historical context showing opposition to it, not support. And if the term were to remain on the page, it is not significant enough to be in the lead. WP:LEAD Again, the lead should be updated to only include the titles most relevant and clearly sourced: American independent podcaster, host of The Jordan Harbinger Show, radio personality, and former Wall Street lawyer. Fidgetingspinerr (talk) 02:52, 30 June 2026 (UTC)

You're being wilfully blind to evidence. The man wrote an article titled "I Used to Be a Pick-Up Artist, Then My Whole Life Changed" which is an admission of being a pickup artist, he also ran a Podcast called "The PickUp Podcast" which couldn't be any blunter, and he has also admitted on another podcast "Mark and Jordan discuss how they evolved beyond their roots in the seedy pickup artist (PUA) scene" that he used to be a pickup artist. If the man has built a multi-decade empire on that history then it deserves to be mentioned in the lede. Comparatively his short, potential one-year stint as 'Wall Street Lawyer' (which puts him in a better social light than 'pickup artist' and supports his rebranding) is a minor footnote in his history compared to his lengthy time as a PUA. Again, it seems to me you have a desire to focus on aligning with his rebranding away from a now heavily criticised industry by painting his history in a more favourable light. MrEarlGray (talk) 12:02, 30 June 2026 (UTC)

You have accused me now of several things but have yet to respond to anything I’ve said in a way that suggests you understand. The things you’ve accused me of can easily be flipped and turned back to you. You said he’s built a “multi-decade empire” on being a pickup artist. I doubt anyone thinks he’s built a multi-decade empire, number 1. Number 2, if so, it certainly has not been built by being a “pickup artist”. GNG is met by the Jordan Harbinger Show and sources after his rebrand as you call it.

But, I’m not interested in being in a pissing contest with you.

If it is consensus, I'm fine with “pickup artist” remaining. But, it was a decade ago and not what he is primarily known for today. Because of that, it certainly doesn't belong in the first sentence of the lead. If you’re determined to keep it in the lead, it needs to be moved to a secondary sentence.

And I’m fine if “Wall Street Lawyer” is not in the lead. I mentioned that only because it’s a fact that is better sourced than what you claim regarding PUA. So if one should be there, I believe the other should based on sourcing.

Anyway, my suggestion of a middle ground is that the lead be:

“Jordan Harbinger is an American independent podcaster, radio personality, and is known as the host of The Jordan Harbinger Show.

His media career began in college when he started the Pickup Podcast, a show focused on dating and social skills that associated him with the “pickup artist” community. After graduating college, he was briefly a Wall Street lawyer before moving into media full-time. He started The Art of Charm podcast before launching The Jordan Harbinger Show in 2018.”

My vote however is to remove the second paragraph altogether and just leave the first sentence as written above given that is the best summary of his notability. Leave the resume details to the body of the article as is usual.

Thanks. Fidgetingspinerr (talk) 01:10, 2 July 2026 (UTC)

You seem angry. I recommend going offline and going outside. MrEarlGray (talk) 13:32, 2 July 2026 (UTC)

I was just feeding it back as I was feeling it. But okay. I updated the lead with the middle ground. Thanks. Fidgetingspinerr (talk) 19:44, 6 July 2026 (UTC)

Sources written by the subject should not be used to change emphasis, and especially not to undermine notability.

The Foundr ref looks like a publicity piece. It shouldn't be used to change emphasis, especially notability. --Hipal (talk) 17:39, 8 July 2026 (UTC)

I concur, we can't undercut our better sources with less reliable ones. After reading all of the above discussion I continue to support the 'former pickup artist' version of the lead. MrOllie (talk) 18:44, 8 July 2026 (UTC)