Talk:Jean Baptiste Point du Sable

French of African heritage

When I hear about French with African ancestry, I'm usually thinking Algerian, Morocan, or Tunisian. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Adfdsfdsffsadfsd (talk • contribs) 04:58, 14 June 2018 (UTC)

He predates that phase of French imperialism. Brutannica (talk) 23:43, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

That makes zero sense, I'm not why people think its unrealistic for him to have sub saharan ancestry. It like people hate the fact that black Africans exist 2601:8C:B80:6660:98A6:C876:F6B6:3B19 (talk) 11:44, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

Bibliography

Changed "Bibliography" to "References cited" per MOS:NOTES: "Bibliography" may be confused with the complete list of printed works by the subject of a biography ("Works" or "Publications"). Otr500 (talk) 08:59, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

Du Sable Estate

That cabin was not where Du sable resided that picture is cut off from another picture that shows The Du Sable Estate 2600:4040:523E:7E00:1DD8:3B96:B670:625A (talk) 23:34, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

Photo upload

I just uploaded a photo of a postage stamp commemorating Pointe du Sable, but I didn't want to accidentally screw up the formatting of the article, especially since it's been previously featured. If anybody more experienced wants to insert it, here's the commons page for it. GunnarBonk (talk) 19:02, 11 June 2023 (UTC)

Hello: I think US stamps are copyrighted, see WP:NFC. Alanscottwalker (talk) 19:49, 11 June 2023 (UTC)

"Permanent resident"?

Under the heading "Legacy and honors: Founder of Chicago" the final sentence states "He is therefore widely regarded as the first permanent resident of Chicago..." However, under the "Biography" section, the 5th paragraph states "The earliest known record of Point du Sable living in Chicago is an entry that Hugh Heward made in his journal on 10 May 1790..." and the 6th and 7th paragraphs state "In 1800 Point du Sable sold his farm...After Point du Sable sold his property in Chicago, he moved to St. Charles, west of St. Louis", where he lived for the next 18 years, died, and was buried. So that means it can be said with certainty that Point du Sable lived in the area where Chicago was founded for at least 10 years, but then moved to St. Charles where he spent nearly twice that length of time. How does that fit the description of Point du Sable as being a "permanent resident" of Chicago? "Permanent" explicitly means "Existing perpetually; everlasting, especially without significant change. https://www.dictionary.com/browse/permanent" So claiming that Point du Sable was a "permanent resident of Chicago" is as nonsensical as claiming that "The Oakland Raiders football team permanently moved to Los Angeles in 1982, although in 1994 they returned to Oakland where they have been ever since." Bricology (talk) 00:24, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

I would presume the meaning is that Point du Sable had his sole dwelling in Chicago at that time; he wasn't a traveler who merely stayed briefly in the area while on a journey. Anyway, the statement does have a source ("Franke, Judith A., French Peoria and the Illinois Country 1673–1846, Illinois State Museum Society, Springfield, IL 1995 p. 37 and The Inhabitants of Three French Villages at Peoria, Illinois, compiled by Ernest East, 1933, and included in Judith Franke's book p. 99, ISBN 978-0897921404"). I do not have access to the book, but if it is reliable and does make that statement, then it's fine for the article to repeat the claim. CodeTalker (talk) 03:47, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

You misread your definition, in general learn to read more broadly, the only nonsense is trying to shoehorn a word into such a narrow understanding, and then trying to apply your narrow understanding, where it does not belong. Take for example, your definition's use of "permanent employee", what permanent means there is a long time, not that the employee is an immortal, who works forever. Same for permanent residency, the concept is staying there for a long-time, not that a person lives forever. This is all the more clear when you read words in context, like words are meant to be read, as is pointed out to you already, in context of the word's use in this article the word is drawing a contrast with earlier shorter stays, stays of less permanence. -- Alanscottwalker (talk) 06:40, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

Permanent residency strongly implies "legal resident status" which isn't a concept that existed in the time of Dusable. The article is therefore mired in faulty interpretations that are mixing and matching context to fit modern bias. There is no historical evidence that the specific term "permanent resident" was used during the 1780s in the Chicago Portage area to describe settlers such as Jean Baptiste Point du Sable. The concept and vocabulary of "permanent resident" as a legal term came into use much later, especially in the context of 20th-century immigration law. In the 1780s and early 19th century, Jean Baptiste Point du Sable and others like him were described as settlers, traders, or among the "first non-Native settlers" of the area that would become Chicago. Du Sable is widely recognized in historical accounts as Chicago's first non-Indigenous settler, but this phrase "permanent resident" is a modern historical interpretation. Contemporary documents and descriptions from the 1700s focused on his activities as a trader and landowner, not on the legal status denoted by "permanent resident". To describe Dusable as "the first "permanent" resident of Chicago" causes additional disconnect to the indigenous tribes from the area who firstly preceded settlers like Dusable. The phrase permanent resident also implies strongly that the city may have been incorporated by the 1780's which is also false and misleading. ZbigniewBrezinski (talk) 11:02, 24 August 2025 (UTC)

Livres

@Alanscottwalker: The article currently includes the text "In 1800 Point du Sable sold his farm to John Kinzie's frontman, Jean La Lime, for 6,000 livres." The term "livres" currently redirects to Livre tournois but should (per WP:PLURAL) redirect to Livre, which is a disambiguation page. I will be making the change on livres and am currently in the process of disambiguating the instances that link to it. (See WP:FIXDABLINKS.)

I think it's pretty clear that the instance in this article should link to New France livre, but I was reverted upon making the change with the cited reason being "that currency apparently no longer existed". No source was provided for this information, but common sense dictates that it still existed, even if it had been demonetized. Nobody gathered up the existing money and destroyed it. Regardless, if anyone thinks there's a better article to link it to (it currently redirects to Livre tournois, which makes no sense at all considering this is in the Americas), please link it to whichever article you feel is most appropriate.

Otherwise, it will simply redirect to a disambiguation page, and the link will be replaced by someone else anyway. Jdaloner (talk) 05:15, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

It makes perfect sense European coins circulated throughout the Americas. That was most of the money in the Americas. And it certainly makes more sense than a long-former paper money (that was not used much even when it circulated) because paper did not last. -- Alanscottwalker (talk) 09:24, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

Like I said, it's going to redirect to a disambiguation page if left unchanged, so I leave it to you to link it to whichever article you feel is best. Jdaloner (talk) 10:20, 30 August 2024 (UTC)