Talk:Isabel Waidner

 

Pronouns

I don't see any mention of Isabel Waidner preferring certain pronouns, nor anything explicit on her/their/his gender self-identification. Imposing unconventional, gendered pronouns on anyone can be as intrusive and unwelcome as not using them. It's the obligation of the editor to justify their choice. It hasn't been done here, so please do. Arminden (talk) 10:25, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

@Arminden - there is no obligation for the editor to justify anything. Waidner's pronouns are not a matter of editor choice, they are a part of following the MOS:GIDINFO: "singular they/them/their pronouns are appropriate to use in reference to any person who goes by them." A footnote would be necessary if Waidner exclusively used neopronouns, which is not the case here. Kazamzam (talk) 14:49, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

@Kazamzam: Exactly: "who goes by them", your/Wiki's words. Does she? Exclusively or non-exclusively. How would I know it? My crystal ball is in the workshop for the annual checkup. I can't imagine you not getting the point, really. Arminden (talk) 15:13, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

@Arminden you would know it by reading the article where the pronoun is consistently and exclusively the singular they. If following the MOS is an issue for you, bring it up for an RfC; this subject's talk page is not the correct forum. Kazamzam (talk) 16:00, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

@Kazamzam: That's called circular argumentation: it is because it is. And it's 100% worthless.

If I create a page on, say, Arnold Schwarzenegger (allow for the sake of the discussion that there isn't one yet) and I decide to call him "they", consistently ('cause you used the word as if it were an argument), what does it make him, and what does it make me? Him - non-binary or otherwise non-male? Never. And me? An idiot.

Try to stay rational. Wokeness is no substitute for thinking. So no, unless a reason is given, anyone calked Isabel is a she. Once the person in case asks for different pronouns, it's our clear obligation to respect that. Logic, Occam's razor, language as a means of communication rather than aggression against it, common sense, call it as you like. And you offering a source is called due dilligence.

Keep it simple. Does Waidner explicitely accept (I'm not even saying: asking for) non-binary pronouns? If yes, I'll disappear like smoke in the wind. If not, I'll go ahead and amend the article. Arminden (talk) 19:27, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

https://www.instagram.com/isabelwaidner/ ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 19:37, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

1) I'm not on Insta. What I see when I click on the link is a lot of photos.

2) It wouldn't matter anyway: the info needs to be inside the article. It's the most basic principle ever, why are we still wasting time here please? Arminden (talk) 19:52, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

"Waidner is nonbinary. [ref: Galluscio, Erica, etc.]"

DONE! It wasn't hard at all, was it? Bye, Arminden (talk) 19:56, 2 January 2024 (UTC)