Talk:Hongeo muchim

Best 3 sources?

Hi, New2lines! Can you tell us which three (and only three) of these sources best meet all of the following minimum criteria?

• WP:significant coverage
• WP:reliable sources
• WP:Independent

We also need at least two of them to be not simply local to the subject's area or in niche publications. Thanks!Valereee (talk) 17:25, 14 November 2025 (UTC)

Hello Valereee,

Thank you for your feedback and for asking me to identify three sources that demonstrate significant coverage, reliability, and independence for the Hongeo muchim draft. Based on your guidance, I would like to highlight the following:

1. VisitKorea – “Wonjo Hongeo Main Store” (Korea Tourism Organization)
   • This is an official publication from the Korea Tourism Organization, a government-affiliated body.
   • It provides independent and reliable coverage of Hongeo muchim as part of regional food culture.
2. Global Economic – “‘Altoran’ recipes: Hong-eo muchim” (2020)
   • A mainstream Korean media outlet reporting on the dish through a nationally broadcast cooking program.
   • It offers significant coverage of preparation methods and cultural context, independent of any single vendor.
3. Digital Hwasun Cultural Encyclopedia – “Funeral Foods” (한국학중앙연구원)
   • Published by the Academy of Korean Studies, this source documents the traditional role of Hongeo muchim in funeral meals.
   • It is scholarly, reliable, and independent, with strong regional specificity.

I believe these three sources together demonstrate that Hongeo muchim is notable within Korean cuisine, with coverage from both national and regional perspectives. They meet the requirements of significant coverage, reliability, and independence, and at least two are regionally specialized.

Thank you again for your guidance. I hope this selection helps move the draft forward.

Best regards,

New2lines New2lines (talk) 07:39, 18 November 2025 (UTC)

(Sorry, that was a typo...we need two to be NOT local/niche; nevertheless, none of these three seem to be, so they would be fine on that count if they represent significant coverage.)

Okay, so for me Visit Korea is down, but it looks like the link is to their "main store" -- is that a shopping site? The Global Economic barely mentions this dish; recipes don't count toward notability. It looks like the digital culture encyclopedia only mentions skate once, so not significant coverage.

A source needs at least a couple of paragraphs about a subject in order to be considered significant coverage. Based on the fact this is apparently a dish commonly served at funerals during a particular season, I agree that this dish likely is notable. But we have to prove it. Valereee (talk) 12:19, 18 November 2025 (UTC)

I respectfully disagree with the characterization that the current draft relies only on recipes or niche sources. The following reliable, independent sources provide multi-paragraph coverage showing that hongeo-muchim is not merely a recipe but a culturally embedded dish tied to seasonal practice, ritual/communal occasions, and local markets. Specifically:

• The JoongAng Ilbo piece reports on market vendors, consumer demand, and festival/program links, treating hongeo-muchim as part of a broader social and economic practice rather than a simple recipe (see linked article).
• The LivingFood article, while including preparation details, contains separate paragraphs describing seasonal consumption, ritual/occasion use, and the dish’s characteristic sensory profile, which contextualize hongeo-muchim beyond instructions for cooking.
• The OhmyNews report presents on-the-ground reporting from local markets that documents distribution, generational consumption differences, and event-based presentation of hongeo dishes, providing empirical context for the dish’s cultural role.

On that basis I request that these sources be accepted as demonstrating “significant coverage” (multiple paragraphs, independent, and reliable reporting) for hongeo-muchim’s cultural and social significance, and that the draft be re-evaluated accordingly.

References

1. https://www.joongang.co.kr/article/22722108
2. https://livingfood.kr/%ED%99%8D%EC%96%B4%EB%AC%B4%EC%B9%A8-%EB%A7%8C%EB%93%9C%EB%8A%94-%EB%B2%95-%EC%8B%A4%ED%8C%A8-%EC%97%86%EB%8A%94-%EC%B4%88%EA%B0%84%EB%8B%A8-%ED%99%A9%EA%B8%88-%EB%A0%88%EC%8B%9C%ED%94%BC-%EA%B3%B5/
3. https://www.ohmynews.com/NWS_Web/View/at_pg.aspx?CNTN_CD=A0001036765

New2lines (talk) 10:22, 19 November 2025 (UTC)

@New2lines, I didn't say the current article relies only on recipes and niche sources. I said the 3 sources you pointed me at as the best were not good for supporting wp:notability because those three you pointed me at were recipes, bare mentions, and a possible sales site. The reason I ask for the three best is because that way I'm not going through nine sources looking for three when the creator of the article, with whom I'm discussing, already knows the sources so ought to be more able than I am to assess them in terms of meeting that minimum requirement.

The reason I said 'three (and only three)' was to encourage you to find the best three, to save my time and energy. I know you're new at this, though, and these are things you aren't familiar with.

Okay, so these new three.

• The JoongAng Ilbo is significant coverage. Looks like it's a major daily in South Korea, so considered reliable for this kind of content. Can be used for showing notability. That's one of the three we need.
• The Living Food is significant coverage. It's a recipe site, but it goes into a lengthy discussion of the dish rather than simply providing a recipe. However, it appears to be a blog, so we can't consider it reliable, and it can't be used for showing notability.
• The OhMyNews is significant coverage. Looks like OhMyNews uses articles from "citizen reporters" whose work is edited by in-house staff. This one's a little iffy because of that, but I'll accept it as reliable for uncontested facts, and its acceptance for publication by a professional news organization as usable for showing notability of the subject. That's the second of the three we need.

Can we find a third? Valereee (talk) 11:04, 19 November 2025 (UTC)

Valereee — thank you so much for your kind, detailed guidance; it made the sourcing criteria and next steps much clearer. I also wanted to add personally that I really love this dish, and seeing it regain popularity recently inspired me to write this article.

For the third source I propose the Asiae column: https://www.asiae.co.kr/article/2021040516310476306. . It directly treats hongeo muchim in a multi-paragraph feature, discussing preparation, taste, and regional consumption patterns, and therefore meets the WP:notability requirements for reliability, independence, and substantive coverage. Paired with the already-accepted JoongAng Ilbo and OhMyNews pieces, this should provide a balanced set of sources to demonstrate the topic’s notability.

Thank you again for your thoughtful help. New2lines (talk) 12:46, 19 November 2025 (UTC)

@New2lines, yes, I'd say that's sig cov, even though it also includes a recipe. We don't seem to have an article on Asia Business Daily, which seems odd since it's apparently been a thing since 1988. Can't find a masthead, but their postings of open jobs includes some with job title of editor, so I'm going to assume that means there's editorial oversight. Yes, I'd say this is your #3 that goes to showing notability. Valereee (talk) 13:38, 19 November 2025 (UTC)

@Valereee — thank you again for your guidance. I have now incorporated three sources that provide significant coverage of hongeo muchim: the JoongAng Ilbo article (market and social context), the OhmyNews report (regional marketplace in Jangseong), and the Asiae feature (culinary writer’s recollections and preparation). Together they demonstrate the dish’s cultural role and notability beyond simple recipes.

Please let me know if further adjustments are needed. New2lines (talk) 02:21, 20 November 2025 (UTC)

Hm, I noticed in the refs that OhMyNews had a little 'generally unreliable' icon on it. (This is from a script I have installed, in this case it led me to the incredibly useful Wikipedia:WikiProject_Korea/Reliable_sources), which if you're planning to create more articles about Korean subjects should be useful to you too! At any rate, we definitely can't use that to support notability, but I've been looking through some of the other sources already in the article, and I think the TODAY source works. Valereee (talk) 12:02, 20 November 2025 (UTC)

• Update: Queen Magazine is a sister publication of Seoul Shinmun. Valereee (talk) 08:31, 3 December 2025 (UTC)

photo

Hey, New2lines, now that the article is in main space, an image would be great. I'm not finding one at Wikimedia Commons under Hongeo muchim or 홍어무침. Is there an article at ko.wiki? If it has an image, we can use that. Or next time you eat it, try to get some good photos first. You could get images of both the food and maybe the stall where it's sold. You can upload those to commons. Valereee (talk) 12:13, 20 November 2025 (UTC)

Hi Valereee, thanks for the suggestion. I’ll try to take good photos of hongeo muchim and the stalls next time I have it. New2lines (talk) 04:42, 24 November 2025 (UTC)

@Valereee — As you suggested, I prepared a photo. I attended a funeral yesterday and took a picture of hongeo muchim there, which I have just uploaded. But I’m not quite sure about the best placement. New2lines (talk) 07:57, 10 December 2025 (UTC)

links to Hongeo muchim

New2lines, we also want to place links from other related articles to this one. Look through the outgoing links and see if there's an appropriate way to link back here. For instance, hoe-muchim and Jeolla Province might be able to link here. We want as many links as are reasonable so that people can find this. Valereee (talk) 12:51, 20 November 2025 (UTC)

Hi Valereee, thanks for pointing that out. I’ll review related articles like hoe-muchim and Jeolla Province to add appropriate backlinks. Thank you New2lines (talk) 04:46, 24 November 2025 (UTC)