Talk:Hodegetria

inconsistent

Although well sourced it seems, the text is full of redundancies, contradicting statements concerning names and terms, bordering on jabbering (sorry). The Hodegetria is the Virgin, an image of her, a class of images of her with variations, but a legend like "Hodegetria looking Away from Virgin", sort of identifying the depiction of Christ in the image with the term etc. Sometimes it is a thing, other times identified as she, the Virgin, because the icon and its copies are literal representations of her, and therefore their names are alternative titles and at the same time identical with the person Mary. The back and forth of arguments in the text doesn't help the understanding. It seems, that it was written by a believer himself, and fervor sneeks into the text, instead of keeping the required distance, thereby loosing the reader. MenkinAlRire 12:45, 12 February 2026 (UTC)

Most of the trouble comes from these edits last August. I've removed quite of lot of the material, but it might be better to revert fully to before them - this version. They introduced the "Madonna of Constantinople" concept, which was new to me, and to the article. It seems this had some currency in Italian Catholicism, but what it actually meant is foggy to me, looking at Madonna of Constantinople, Madonna of Constantinople (Preti) and . It seems to be a vague Italian branding, drawing on Byzantine prestige, and not associated with any particular pose. The Orthodox derivative icons are very different. Johnbod (talk) 17:22, 12 February 2026 (UTC)

And/or perhaps set up a "Madonna of Constantinople" list/disam page for the Italian stuff. Being Greek/American, of course he started using American English over the previous British Eng. Johnbod (talk) 17:28, 12 February 2026 (UTC)

@Johnbod, hi. The article starts good, but then it somehow slides away. I stopped reading it half-way through, because it became blurry. But I am surprised, that you took an interest in the topic, I didn't expect art history buffs here, rather theologians, but you are actually also religious, I guess. But good to know, you have some knowledge in that field. I am somewhat drifting through early medieval Christianity at the moment, occasionally an unpleasant read, because you have to really pay attention how speculative it sometimes gets. MenkinAlRire 18:12, 12 February 2026 (UTC)

This is an art-historical subject par excellence, so I'm surprised you are surprised. I rewrote most of the old version some years ago. Johnbod (talk) 18:44, 12 February 2026 (UTC)

Valid. I think, especially the orthodox world stays foreign to me. Greets, MenkinAlRire 21:20, 12 February 2026 (UTC)

• After some thought, I've fully reverted to last April. It turns out we had a Santa Maria dell'Itria disam page, now linked here, and a list of "Madonna of Constantinople" churches could be taken from the history here. Johnbod (talk) 15:13, 13 February 2026 (UTC)