Talk:Hey Diddle Diddle

The nursery rhyme : Hey Diddle Diddle, pops up in research into my family name of Lovell. The name Lovell is a derivation from the Latin, Lupas, -the wolf. It is a very well known surname and over 40 coats of arms are assigned to the name. The celebrated Hugh d'Abrincis, earl of Chester, surnamed Lupas, was a nephew to William the Conqueror. TheBarons Lovel, introduced in to England at the time of the Conquest were lords of Yuery in Normandy. Ascetic, the son of Robert,the head of this race, was called Lupas on account of his violent temper. His younger son was called Lupellus,or little wolf, and this eventually corrupted into Lovell. Lupus and Lupellus were rendered into French as Low and Lovel, and in the middle ages this was the common name for dog. In the time of Richard the 3rd, William Collingborne was executed for making too free with the name of Lovel. The three favourites of Richard were thus stigmatised in Rhyme -

  "The Ratte, the Catte and Lovel 
   The dog
   Rule all England under the Hog"

Richard and his favourites, Ratcliffe, Catsby and Lovel, made quite sure that Collingborne would write no more rhymes.

Another famous rhyme written at the same time about Richard the 3rd, and Francis Lovell, making sure that no names were mentioned, was -

  "Hey Diddle Diddle "

Hey diddle diddle refers to the Usurption of Richard the third. The cat and the fiddle, refers to Sir William Catsby whose badge was a cat and was one of Richard's closest advisors. The fiddle was the spurious means by which Catsby is supposed to invented the tale of Edward the fourth pre-contract thus bringing Richard to the Throne. The cow jumped over the moon is still another reference to crests and badges-this time dun cow of the Neville's and crescent moon of the Percies of Northumberland. The meaning of this is that through the marriage of Richard and Anne Neville and the ascendancy in the North, the Percies were ousted from their position as the ancient lords of that territory. "The little doglaughed to see such sport" is of course Francis Lovel whose badge was a Talbot (dog) and was delighted with Richard's rise to power. "The dish ran away with the spoon" is a reference to Richard himself although this is not easy to explain. It comes from the abbreviation of Richard to Dickson. Dickson also means devil and devil means cook. When a cook devils food he bastes it with a dish. In this case it means Richard. The spoon is the is the anointing spoon used at the coronation which Richard "ran away with the spoon" by means of the "fiddle".

Des Lovell — Preceding unsigned comment added by ~2026-17222-97 (talk) 06:06, 19 March 2026 (UTC)

Untitled

Question: should this article place so much emphasis on the Tolkien version or should that have a separate article? Lee M 00:25, 31 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Tolkien's version moved to The Man in the Moon Stayed Up Too Late. Ausir 22:41, 26 Mar 2004 (UTC)

And 8 years later, it seems someone re-inserted an extended quote of Tolkien's version. Yay for reading the talk page before you edit! I cut this as, among other things, a likely copyright violation as it was a fairly lengthy quote. 192.35.35.36 (talk) 05:36, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

So does anyone know just what scandal it is supposed to be satirizing?82.192.146.25 23:49, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

I have modified the layout of the three pictures so that the edit links don't stick together near the bottom of the page. --Iiaiialover 10:02, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Trivia

{{ trivia |date=October 2007}}

In Steve Allen's routine "The Question Man," in which an answer would be posed and Allen would say the question (as on Jeopardy!,) an answer was given, "The cow jumped over the moon." Allen, as The Question Man, replied, "what happened when lightning struck the milking machine?"

Please do explain that; what is funny about lightning, in this context??

This should reference the diddle article. Further, that article needs much more; there are other definitions. Then, there's doodle.

Thank You,

[[ hopiakuta Please do sign your signature on your message. ~~ Thank You. -]] 15:10, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Here's my take on this limerick: The moon represents the fundamental flaw. Here mankind designed the wheel using the full moon as a reference, but the moon is not a dish, it is a sphere. I can also imply the cat has a master who plays or IS the fiddle The BOVINE jumped over this whole concept As for the DOG well the dogs of society which exist to this day (the exceedingly rich) I also think the Pied Piper is related to this limerick just a thought not stating fact at all —Preceding unsigned comment added by Serfwrite (talk • contribs) 03:46, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Astronomy version an unlikely source

I'm deemphasizing the astronomy angle as a possible source (the animals refer to constellations which are only visible at the correct time to plant in England).

While it may be true that the various suggested constellations do appear in the English skies around 10PM in mid-April (or 11PM in March, or 9PM in June...), it is extremely far fetched to think that anyone would use this pattern of constellations to mark anything.

• First of all, Crater and Canis Minor are faint constellations which take more than passing skill to locate in the night sky.
• Second, since Crater is adjacent to Leo, there is no practical reason for including both in a pnuemonic.
• Third, there are many simpler ways to describe this particular orientation of the celestial sphere. To me the most obvious might be the fact that Dubhe and Merak, the pointer stars of the Big Dipper, are standing straight up over the pole star — you don't need a degree is druid astrophysics to find the pointer stars, you can find these on any reasonably clear night (even on those nights you've had too much mead).
• Finally, if you're going to design a celestial clock in the northern hemisphere, you will be drawn to circumpolar constellations because they allow you to read the clock any time of the year, and the bright pointer stars are the easiest to read for this purpose, just as the Big Dipper is the easiest constellation to find in northern skies (with the possible exception of Cassiopeia).

So, unless a credible source to the contrary can be found, I'm demoting this stuff to quirky coincidence. -- 76.202.118.151 (talk) 07:50, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

according to Google Translate

Long live Didur, Didell! 

In the puzzle, the cow jumped on the moon. The dog laughed at the game and left laughter on the spoon. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.18.219.55 (talk) 23:41, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

Spoken Version

I plan to record a spoken version of the article. I may edit the "Meaning" section because it is a little difficult to follow. Still, all the different theories are amusing, so I plan to leave them all in. Any feedback is welcomed. 0101Abc (talk) 05:38, 19 August 2022 (UTC)