Talk:Harira

Etymology

yerubal 22:27, 25 May 2008 (UTC) It would be nice to see it written in Arabic. The name looks as though it might mean "liberating", as in the soup with which we're liberated from the fast (or it could mean "hot", or it could be a pun that incorporates both). If someone knows, it would be worth an edit. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Yerubal (talk • contribs) 22:27, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

• I removed the etymology section entirely because it was mostly speculation. I'm of the opinion that حريرة is a diminutive form of حار spicy, but this isn't the place for original research, so I thought the fair thing was take the section out. Peripatesy (talk) 01:45, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

It means silk in Arabic. There are some references to it also being the same word in Farsi but the additional word in Farsi appears to be a loan word from Arabic and the primary word for silk is something else entirely. Akidari (talk) 20:00, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

• Someone told me once that ‘harir’ is silk in Arabic, so it’s like ‘silky soup’ or something like that. Can anyone confirm that?

Unfinished sentence

traditional honey sweets (called and other goodies (special bread or crepes) prepared at home.

What are the traditional honey sweets called? Also, the sentence would flow if you removed the jargon "goodies" and wrote it like this:

traditional honey sweets called whatever_should_go_here and other home-made special breads or crepes.

--WPaulB (talk) 18:47, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Regions where Harira is prepared.

Can't we be a little bit more precise and say harira exists in the Algerian west and not all of Algeria. Simoooix.haddi (talk) 01:55, 5 February 2023 (UTC)

Also i've checked the sources and they don't say the opposite, they are talking about the harira of Tlemcen which is a city of the Algerian west. Simoooix.haddi (talk) 02:09, 5 February 2023 (UTC)

Read another source and stop wasting our time with your POV pushing. M.Bitton (talk) 12:59, 5 February 2023 (UTC)

References

Origin and Descartes16's edits

@Descartes16 so you simply went to the Google Books search bar, typed "Harira North African African origin," and hoped to find something that would justify removing Morocco and replacing it with another term. You ended up citing random cookbooks—hardly reliable sources— you are not concerned for whether Harira is from Andalusia or North Africa, as long as it serves your goal of omitting Morocco. Impressive! 105.75.51.19 (talk) 16:07, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

@Akidari can you take a look at this ? 105.75.51.19 (talk) 16:10, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

@Akidari is the one who proposed to mention North Africa / Maghreb. It's also very difficult to find reliable sources (not from a cuisine book) regarding the origin of Harira, so mentioning North Africa / Maghreb can be a way to solve this issue. I am also reminding you to assume good faith with your fellow contributors on Wikipedia. Best. Descartes16 (talk) 17:24, 12 March 2025 (UTC)

Hey @Descartes16, I'm the one who started this discussion. I just created this account three days ago. Anyway, I was hoping you could provide reliable sources instead of cookbooks. But instead, you just pulled some random cookbooks from a Google Books search to remove 'Morocco.' I don't get why you did that—do you think food historian Gil Marks got it wrong or something? Hndoia (talk) 03:42, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

Again you don't seem to be familiar with Wikipedia's principle, I am reminding you one more time to assume good faith. Also, Harira is a dish and this is why the majority of the sources are from cookbooks. As the origins are disputed, we cannot rely only on one author (specialized in Jewish food) to determine the origin of this dish. Also, as this dish is pretty popular in Morocco and Algeria, the best solution regarding the absence of reliable sources is to mention North Africa / Maghreb as place of origin. Best. Descartes16 (talk) 09:58, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

@Descartes16 literally Anyone can create a cookbook; if I wanted to make one, I could do it easily. I wouldn't need a degree or recognition—just some money to publish it. That's why cookbooks are unreliable. However, Gil Marks is a historian, which makes his book credible. I don't understand why you think there's an absence of reliable sources when you have one right in front of you. I don't believe the origins are disputed, but if you have a reliable source from a historian supporting your claims, that would be a different matter. Otherwise, your argument doesn't make sense. Hndoia (talk) 11:37, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

First of all, I would advise you to be less aggressive. This is not an interrogation but a discussion on a collaborative encyclopedia. All your interventions since you started on Wikipedia have been directed directly at me, which totally contravenes all Wikipedia principles. I therefore ask you to refocus on the subject and stop the personal attacks. This is not acceptable and is not a way of collaborating.

Regarding our subject, as your mentor pointed out, the origins of dishes and other topics in the Maghreb are highly controversial subjects. As such, we only have one source from a historian (not specialized in Maghreb/North African cuisine but in Jewish cuisine) in a book whose main subject is absolutely not Maghreb/North African cuisine. In view of the lack of further sources and the controversial nature of the subject, mentioning a North African origin is the best solution. If you manage to get hold of other sources from (specialized) historians, I invite you to present them. Descartes16 (talk) 14:02, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

@Descartes16

I don’t get why you think I’m being aggressive or personally attacking you. I’m just criticizing what you do, and you should be open to that. Also, maybe take a look at yourself calling something "disruptive" while reverting—that could be seen as a personal attack too.

Anyway, Jews lived in large numbers in the Maghreb, especially in Morocco, and they adopted many local dishes from Morocco, Algeria, and Tunisia. So, you can’t just say we can’t rely on his book. You’re asking me for sources from historians, but when I asked you for one, you still haven’t provided it. Hndoia (talk) 17:38, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

Sorry but I don't understand your point, it is very common in cooking related article to use that kind of source. You are not able to provide any other source than the one from Gil Marks so why are you pushing your POV ? Descartes16 (talk) 12:54, 25 March 2025 (UTC)

How can harira be from al andalus if tomato didnt exist in that era dear algerians atleast make your lie credible 109.55.202.102 (talk) 13:28, 16 July 2025 (UTC)

The objection that Gil Marks is unreliable because his focus is Jewish food doesn't really hold — food historians document dishes across the regions where the communities they study lived, and Marks explicitly attributes harira's origin to Morocco in that context. Beyond Marks, ref 1 in this very article (Collins English Dictionary, 2025) defines harira as "a traditional Moroccan soup" independently, with no mention of Algeria. That gives us two unrelated sources pointing to Morocco. For "North Africa" or "Maghreb" to replace Morocco as the stated origin, there should be a source that affirmatively makes that claim — not just the absence of additional sources. Bohosquare1 (talk) Bohosquare1 (talk) 11:54, 22 March 2026 (UTC)

Infobox region vs. Origin section

The infobox currently lists Algeria before Morocco under "Region or state." The Origin section, however, opens with Gil Marks (Encyclopedia of Jewish Food, 2010) attributing harira's origin to Morocco, and ref 1 (Collins English Dictionary, 2025) independently defines it as "a traditional Moroccan soup" with no mention of Algeria. The body text and the infobox are not consistent with each other. Unless there is a source specifically identifying Algeria as the origin or co-origin of the dish — as opposed to simply a country where it is also prepared — the current infobox ordering doesn't appear to follow from the article's own cited sources. Worth discussing. Bohosquare1 (talk) Bohosquare1 (talk) 11:56, 22 March 2026 (UTC)