Talk:Harad
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Delhi Sultanate
[edit]The fantasy world of "Harad" could be evidence that "Delhi Sultanate" has a presence in literature.
The presence of massive "War elephant" is more proof that Harad is the "Indian subcontinent".
08:16, 27 January 2023 (UTC)~~/08:16, 27 January 2023 (UTC)08:16, 27 January 2023 (UTC)~~ 43.242.178.51 (talk) 08:16, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
- You are entitled to your personal opinion, but since that cannot be verified by other editors, we cannot use it in the article. Of course, if a scholar has made a similar suggestion, we can cite that book or research paper. Chiswick Chap (talk) 09:13, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
King of Colombo
[edit]Corsairs of Umbar are metaphorically the "King of Colombo". 19:47, 18 February 2023 (UTC)19:47, 18 February 2023 (UTC)19:47, 18 February 2023 (UTC)~////////////19:47, 18 February 2023 (UTC)19:47, 18 February 2023 (UTC)43.242.178.214 (talk) 43.242.178.214 (talk) 19:47, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
- You are entitled to your personal opinion, but since that cannot be verified by other editors, we cannot use it in the article. Of course, if a scholar has made a similar suggestion, we can cite that book or research paper. Chiswick Chap (talk) 19:57, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
Catalan Atlas of 1375
[edit]Harad is metaphorically the Delhi Sultanate, their mighty Mumakil War elephant species is the much needed evidence.
The Corsair of Umbar is the King of Colombo.
My evidence is the Catalan Atlas of 1375.
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- Um, on the war elephant, Tolkien explicitly gave a Roman source, so your "evidence" is incorrect. Chiswick Chap (talk) 07:33, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
India and Ceylon
[edit]Harad is India and Umbar is Ceylon, just as the Catalan Atlas of 1375 explained.
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- I note your personal opinion that there could be an oriental interpretation of Harad. However, you cannot cite a PRIMARY source like the medieval Catalan Atlas, as obviously that says nothing about whether Tolkien (centuries later) knew of the source or used it. What would be required would be a scholarly source that says in terms that Tolkien saw the atlas and may have been influenced by it. Without that, all your speculations are ORIGINAL RESEARCH and are forbidden on Wikipedia. You have made your opinion known, but without further evidence, it cannot go anywhere, so please stop now. Chiswick Chap (talk) 07:32, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
Shari'a Law
[edit]North Africa has Shari'a Law, how can a civilization like Harad which share so much resemblance to "medieval India" be from there?
23:54, 4 May 2024 (UTC)23:54, 4 May 2024 (UTC)~~\\\\\\\\\\\23:54, 4 May 2024 (UTC)~~\\\\\\\\\\23:54, 4 May 2024 (UTC)23:54, 4 May 2024 (UTC)~ 137.59.145.217 (talk) 23:54, 4 May 2024 (UTC)
- Tolkien was thinking of North Africa in Classical times, 2000 years ago, long before Islam.
- Vague resemblance is not evidence. On the contrary, Tolkien actually names a Classical use of war elephants, so India is definitely excluded. Please read my earlier replies, which you do not seem to have taken on board at all.
- Further, the documentary evidence is as the article states. If you know of written evidence that Tolkien had India in mind, please say so. There is nothing like that in his Letters. Chiswick Chap (talk) 02:51, 5 May 2024 (UTC)
Geography and People
[edit]I am not an expert in Elvish linguistics, but according to the usage in LoTR:
- Haradrim is indeed the name of the people, used a number of times, cross-referenced in the index from Southrons and Swertings
- Haradwaith, in contrast, appears only once (App A.I.iv) as a place-name
I am therefore unsure about the explanation that both people and place were called Haradwaith, from harad south + gwaith people; the given reference is not explicit about this. Can a better linguist please clarify this? -- Verbarson talkedits 16:40, 16 May 2025 (UTC)