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Latest comment: 5 months ago1 comment1 person in discussion
I noticed the recent reverts deleting the population figures during the 1704 capture of Gibraltar: approx. 4,000–5,000 Spaniards departing / 70 (mostly Genoese) remaining. The revert reason was that the edit provided 'more detail than anything else in the section.'
I understand that we should respect the goal of keeping the history section concise per WP:SUMMARY, together with the goals of precision and internal consistency. The deleted data about the population change are not “more detail than anything else in the section”, and the inclusion of specific figures (approx. 4,000–5,000 departing / 70 remaining) are limited detail that keep precision, context, and internal consistency:
Precision vs. Vague Language: Specific data should be used when it provides necessary clarity. The previous phrasing "most of the population" is unnecessarily vague; it could imply 51% or 99%. The shift from roughly 5,000 residents to only 70 (documented by Jackson and Harvey) illustrates the near-total demographic change that occurred. This is a defining historical event that requires clear context.
The section explicitly cites the figure of "4,350 conversos" for the year 1474. If a specific headcount of a group of people that stayed for two years is appropriate for the 15th century, it is certainly appropriate for the 1704 exodus, one of the most significant demographic shifts in Gibraltar’s history, if we want to keep internal consistency.
The section later spends significant space on the life and works of one architect Giovanni Maria Boschetti “who arrived in Gibraltar in 1784 as a 25-year-old from Milan, where he is thought to have been a stonemason or engineer (…)”. A collective demographic event is more historically significant than a single individual's biography.
The current version of the section includes a list of five different types of window and balcony styles. This is a very high level of 'detail.' It is inconsistent to include a list including “Genoese window shutters” while excluding the mention of the Genoese population who influenced those styles.
The section already mentions specific numbers of inhabitants that give a precise idea of demographic trends and shifts. It would be inconsistent to delete the 4,000-5,000 villagers that left the town and mention that "In the 18th century, the peacetime military garrison fluctuated in numbers from a minimum of 1,100 to a maximum of 5,000" or that "The first half of the 19th century saw a significant increase of population to more than 17,000 in 1860(…)”
We are talking bout around a dozen words, which is not “excessive detail” about an epochal demographic shift in the town, especially if you take into account the other details that are not under discussion by any user. I propose to discuss here before having more reverts.
Latest comment: 1 month ago1 comment1 person in discussion
its Jabal Al Tariq. European always crafts history which is full of doudt and against facts. What if Jabal al Tariq remain same as named. Because there was was no name before. ~2026-36158-52 (talk) 12:37, 21 June 2026 (UTC)Reply
Latest comment: 23 days ago5 comments3 people in discussion
On 4 July, Lui Editor added the 25-year-old statistics of religious affiliation to the infobox, as recorded in the census of 2001. I reverted because the infobox is for the most relevant high-level data and its status as of 25 years ago certainly does not meed the criteria for infobox content (it could go in the body of the article but an reliably sourced reason to do so would be needed). But if the data for the 2021 census could be provided instead, then that could be posted.
Today, Lui Editor restored the obsolete data, justifying their action on the basis of their personal opinion about the 2021 census, that 50% of it is false. So I reverted again because obsolete data is still obsolete and the opinion of Wikipedia editors must never be a factor. If Lui Editor has well-founded reasons to question the 2021 statistics, then the obvious answer is to continue to omit them from the infobox. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 10:11, 11 July 2026 (UTC)Reply
I'd like to point out that Lui did not restore the previously added obsolete data. Lui added different, less obsolete (2012) data.
Also, in the hypothetical case that there are reliable sources saying the 2021 figures are disputed, it makes more sense to me to report the less current but best available data than to include none at all. I note that the edits do include the date of the information, so any reader who doesn't think 15 year old religious affiliation has any relevance can ignore it. Bryan Henderson (giraffedata) (talk) 14:21, 11 July 2026 (UTC)Reply
I can see the logic of that argument so it is a judgement call. The infobox exists to communicate the most significant "hard" data about the place in question. I think we agree that 25-year-old data doesn't meet that test. Whether 15-year-old data does is one for local editor consensus. But if five-year-old data is available, why not use it? To declare that 50% of it is false was a red flag that demanded reversion. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 15:53, 11 July 2026 (UTC)Reply
Let me remind you of your edit summary: "wont add 2022 cuz 50% of it false". 50% is more than slightly. Can you say how false you think the 2022 data is and why?
"What's even the problem now" is that the 2012 data is old. We can fix that problem by using the 2022 data, unless you can make a case that it's significantly false. (And really, I don't mean that it is false but that WP:reliable sourcessay it is false. Wikipedia doesn't report the truth, it faithfully paraphrases reliable sources). Bryan Henderson (giraffedata) (talk) 05:19, 12 July 2026 (UTC)Reply
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Remove the new "responsible" text next to "sovereign state". It is British sovereign territory, and the sovereign state is therefore the UK. Doesn't matter if it is part of the UK itself or not - sovereign state is the UK. UK is already "responsible" as a result. ~2026-42599-76 (talk) 01:53, 2 August 2026 (UTC)Reply
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Not done. Add it where? And in any case, this seems completely off topic. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 03:51, 18 June 2026 (UTC)
Done. The request is to add it to the cultural references section, and it is consistent with other entries already in that list, so I added it there. Bryan Henderson (giraffedata) (talk) 15:21, 18 June 2026 (UTC)