Talk:George Modelski

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And Spain?

It's amazing Spain is not a world leader for this and many Anglo authors. Spain was the first global power (1492-1643), founding an creator empire like Rome did, unlike others that built a black legend that is still present. 90.160.97.58 (talk) 09:27, 24 August 2025 (UTC)

spain and Portugal divided the world between them at the treaty of Tordesillas. Spain got most of South America thus the gold of the incas and Aztecs. Portugal got Brazil, the Indian ocean, and the Spice islands. Spice being more valuable than gold (and obtainable through trade, no fighting required), the Portuguese had the better deal. Also they made more progress in establishing maritime law.

Modelski wrote a later book showing that Portugal had a larger fleet than Spain. Crawiki (talk) 18:51, 24 August 2025 (UTC)

Ok, Portugal also started slave traffic and Spain did not . On the contrary, Isabel I ordered that Indians were treated well as any human being. Later on there was the "Controversy of Valladolid" or Valladolid debate about this issue in 1550. No other power did so later on.

Spain started a real new civilization as Rome did as I said before, whereas Portugal or the powers later on didnt who only founded trading coastal enclaves. After erradicating human sacrifies by aztecs and incas, Spain created mixed societies with the same legal status as Spain, so Spain did not have "colonies" but viceroyalties and so. All the rest had colonies. You see Gibraltar nowadays... Not to forget or mention all the discoveries of Spain in America as early as 1530 or the circumnavigation of the world in 1519 with Portugal trying to sink the surviving ships.

Ignoring the importance of Spain and supporting Portugal for "the spices" is more than ridiculous. All these authors obviously knew it but simply refused to make even a positive comment. Clearly the black legend by the Protestant powers and France who clearly failed to match Spain is still in progress. If Spain hadn't been a Protestant country, probably, just probably, no black legend would've existed. I'm not to optimistic though.

In recent years in Spain there's a huge reply by many authors fed up with this black vision, real best sellers most of them. You can hide History but never changed it. ~2025-33520-30 (talk) 10:44, 14 November 2025 (UTC)