Talk:Geneva

Climate

This section is very poorly worded and hard to understand. I'd rewrite it but I'm not even sure what they writer was trying to say. Definitely needs cleaned up.

Hipsterdoofus 20:00, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

It's also completely incorrect. Geneva is nowhere near an ocean. It has a continental climate with scorching hot summmers (around 40ºC)and somewhat cold winters (around 5ºC). 2A04:EE41:83:595F:1068:4F76:2F4B:CAE4 (talk) 15:46, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

I totally agree with this comment, I couldn't understand any of it and I'm not at all sure what to do about it. I'm not even sure if words were left out or sentences completely re-structured. Help wiki!

~Larkyn —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.75.24.252 (talk) 08:57, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

CERN

I removed the collage in the box because one of the its images may actually be in France. CERN is divided between the two countries. In addition, very few people can actually see this equipment, so we should use an image which is more emblematic of the city. The other mentions of CERN in the article are a bit overemphasized also. BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 19:59, 20 July 2018 (UTC)

English pronunciation

@ZH8000: Did you just seriously revert me while ignoring the edit summary, gave me the 3RR warning on my talk page and then scolded me for not writing an edit summary on Sion, Switzerland after ignoring the edit summaries here (you shouldn't template the regulars by the way)? Are you serious?

Directly above those messages (now removed from my talk page), there's a thread in which Nardog has explained to me why jin-EE-və is a correct respelling. You ignored that as well. Kbb2 (ex. Mr KEBAB) (talk) 01:08, 8 September 2019 (UTC)

@ZH8000:

/æ, ɛ, ɪ, ɒ, ʌ, ʊ/ (a, e(h), i(h), o, u(h), uu) are checked vowels, meaning never occurring at the end of a word or before a vowel. When a checked vowel is followed by a consonant and a stressed vowel, which is rare nonetheless, it is acceptable in some cases to attribute the following consonant to the same syllable as the checked vowel, as in bal-AY, even though in IPA it is usually attributed to the following syllable, as in /bæˈleɪ/. However, when the following consonant is a voiceless plosive (/p, t, k/) […]

This is what the help says. Now, since /n/ is nothing like a voiceless plosive and i and ih are not really intuitive spellings (the first because it has multiple English pronunciations, the latter because it is never found in any English words), we should avoid them as often as possible and in this case syllabify differently. イヴァンスクルージ九十八_（会話） 07:08, 8 September 2019 (UTC)

@IvanScrooge98: I see, both of you are strictly (and mindlessly) following some given rules (I confirm that and I do not challenge these), but you are simply neglecting the reality. The reality is that GE-NE-VA (Geneva is not composed by two parts, 'Gen' and 'Eva', btw) is not spoken that way you imply. And you do not give a source which supports your claims, none (WP:VER is still a major requirement)! Your misunderstanding may result from the fact that 'Geneva' is not (derived) from an English term? - For further fruitful discussion, please provide sources which support your claims regarding the accentuation of 'Geneva'. Thanks -- ZH8000 (talk) 13:58, 8 September 2019 (UTC)

@ZH8000: This means that you don't understand that rule. There's little difference between /dʒɪnˈiːvə/ and /dʒɪˈniːvə/ in English. /dʒɪnˈiːvə/ doesn't imply that a glottal stop can be put in front of /iː/. English isn't German.

Please take this to Help talk:Pronunciation respelling key. You're the one who's challenging the consensus. Kbb2 (ex. Mr KEBAB) (talk) 14:05, 8 September 2019 (UTC)

They speak French in Geneva! – I still expect sources (WP:VER) to your accentuation claim. -- ZH8000 (talk) 14:18, 8 September 2019 (UTC)

@ZH8000: Start a thread on Help talk:Pronunciation respelling key. You're clearly misunderstanding the first note in the respelling key. Kbb2 (ex. Mr KEBAB) (talk) 14:20, 8 September 2019 (UTC)

@ZH8000: nothing to add, except– what has French got to do with the English exonym Geneva? And how can jin-EE-və be misinterpreted and result in a different pronunciation than intended? イヴァンスクルージ九十八_（会話） 14:31, 8 September 2019 (UTC)

Kbb2 wrote: "English isn't German.". -- ZH8000 (talk) 14:33, 8 September 2019 (UTC)

Because he was saying the only way one would mispronounce the transcription would be applying to it phonological rules from other languages, which is pretty unlikely, don’t you think? イヴァンスクルージ九十八_（会話） 14:36, 8 September 2019 (UTC)

But why German??? -- ZH8000 (talk) 14:40, 8 September 2019 (UTC)

Standard German syllables never start with a vowel, and therefore -⁠EE- would end up being [-ˈʔiː-]; it was an example. But this is English. イヴァンスクルージ九十八_（会話） 14:45, 8 September 2019 (UTC)

Simply since Help:Pronunciation respelling key#Syllables and stress says: "Syllables are separated by hyphens ("-"). The stress on a syllable is indicated by capital letters." -- ZH8000 (talk) 14:40, 8 September 2019 (UTC)

They are still syllables. We are only moving consonants to better convey pronunciation, as long as it’s predictable, and it is here. イヴァンスクルージ九十八_（会話） 14:45, 8 September 2019 (UTC)

If you like, so, it should read /jiN-EE-va/?? -- ZH8000 (talk) 15:10, 8 September 2019 (UTC)

Nope. What is the point of capitalizing an N alone before a dash? The syllable nucleus is always represented by the vowel (syllabic consonants are always unstressed and not uninaimously considered as phonemic in English). That’s why it is fine to have consonants “belong” in another syllable. イヴァンスクルージ九十八_（会話） 15:15, 8 September 2019 (UTC)

Therefore I would expect it to be written as /ji-NEE-va/. Comparable to " For example, the word "pronunciation" (/prəˌnʌnsiˈeɪʃən/) is respelled prə-NUN-see-AY-shən." from Help:Pronunciation respelling key#Syllables and stress. -- ZH8000 (talk) 15:24, 8 September 2019 (UTC)

We have explained already why putting i at the end of that “syllable” is not the best solution. Not going to repeat myself. イヴァンスクルージ九十八_（会話） 15:27, 8 September 2019 (UTC)

These still are only respelling-inherent logic (rules), but do still not make obvious why it contradicts the IPA-code /dʒɪˈniːvə/.

(TBC, for the moment I have to leave). -- ZH8000 (talk) 15:35, 8 September 2019 (UTC)

If it’s not obvious, all it takes for a reader is clicking on the respelling and reading the help, which is there for a reason. If you don’t agree we should transcribe Geneva (and thus any other similar cases) like this, once again, please try to challenge the consensus at the proper page. Thank you. イヴァンスクルージ九十八_（会話） 15:45, 8 September 2019 (UTC)

@ZH8000: The reality is that GE-NE-VA (Geneva is not composed by two parts, 'Gen' and 'Eva', btw) is not spoken that way you imply – I'd like to know what you mean by this. Can you explain how exactly jin-EE-və and jih-NEE-və differ in terms of the pronunciations they suggest? Nardog (talk) 15:58, 8 September 2019 (UTC)

Hi, Nardog. The two pronunciations you give are pronounced exactly alike, as much as I can tell. BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 05:09, 22 September 2019 (UTC)

Who are you? I was asking ZH8000 specifically. Nardog (talk) 00:42, 23 September 2019 (UTC)

My personal page is at User:BeenAroundAWhile. Sincerely, BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 19:13, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

Edit summary

Regarding this edit, the WP:Edit summary of "Well, then," was confusing, so I reverted the change. Best wishes, BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 19:10, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• Logo Ville Genève.svg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 22:07, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion:

• Brunswick Monument.jpg
• Geneva saint peter.JPG

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Legal objection about added map photo

I doubt that photos of Swisstopo's maps are legal copies.

In https://www.swisstopo.admin.ch/en/home/meta/terms-and-conditions.html under Copyright it says that "Copyright and any other rights relating to texts, illustrations, photos or any other data available on the websites of swisstopo are the exclusive property of Swisstopo or of any other expressly mentioned owners. Any reproduction requires the prior written consent of the copyright holder.".

The referred free use only relates to geological data and their services, not the reproductions of maps/pictures.

-- ZH8000 (talk) 16:00, 29 August 2023 (UTC)

Yes, Swisstopo maps are under a free license. See National Maps of Switzerland. These are already used in many places. Yann (talk) 10:14, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

Hmm, all these examples have been published by Federal Office of Topography themselves. So, no evidence at all. -- ZH8000 (talk) 13:48, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi ZH8000, have you read the terms of use specifically applying to geoservices and geodata? It says: "The free geodata and geoservices of swisstopo may be used, distributed and made accessible. Furthermore, they may be enriched and processed and also used commercially." So, in our case, the file in question is an automatically generated pdf map by the geoportal, it is as free to use as tiff map sheets or simple screen captures. Zach (Talk) 13:01, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

Undue weight for an extinct dialect

User:IvanScrooge98 has been lately insisting to provide in the lead and in the infobox the name of Geneva and its pronunciation in the arpitan genevan dialect. This is totally disproportionate and gives undue weight to an extinct language. One can indeed read in « Le souvenir du patois dans le Canton de Genève » by J. Broggini, in « Le Globe. Revue genevoise de géographie » : « La disparition du dialecte en ville de Genève a lieu vers la fin du XVIIIème siècle », and that the dialect has survived some more in a few villages around Geneva, but is now totally extinct. Information on this dialect can be provided in a specific section within the page, but not in the lead. Sapphorain (talk) 14:43, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

It’s just weird to me to put it in a note when all other names within that note are in languages that were never spoken there, unlike Arpitan which was the main native language for a long time. So it makes more sense to put it next to French, whether that means including it in the lead or putting everything inside the note. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 19:22, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

You are obviously not living in Geneva, probably not even in Switzerland, and your obsession on Arpitan is becoming very tiring. Arpitan is not a language, but a vast family of loosely related languages and dialects, most of which are now totally extinct in Switzerland. What you are referring to should not be called Arpitan, but simply the genevan dialect, which has totally disappeared from the city of Geneva for more than 200 years, and from the rest of the canton for almost 100 years. The genevan dialect is extinct, and if mentioned at all should be in an historical section with other extinct languages such as the language spoken by Allobrogians, and Latin, but not in the lead. In some places in Valais dialects are still spoken, but people from different valleys have a hard time to understand each other (except in French of course), and they could definitely not understand the genevan dialect if it still existed (despite the fact that you would undoubtedly call their several various dialects « Arpitan » as well…).

In comparison, German, and especially Italian, besides being official Swiss languages, are commonly spoken in Geneva. In fact, there has been a never ending immigration from Italy to Geneva since at least the fifteenth century, and there has always been since a large Italian speaking community here. --Sapphorain (talk) 23:08, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

What a long way to say that it was historically spoken there, unlike German or Romansh which obviously belong in the note—and which was my main point while you went deep diving into useless details unhelpful to the conversation. Seems like you are the one who’s obsessed. And by the way, there are several different ways to define a language—that’s why the article on the topic literally begins with Franco-Provençal (also Francoprovençal, Patois or Arpitan) is a Gallo-Romance language […] and nobody bats an eye. The point is it is something historically spoken in the area just like French, and for a pretty long time until not so long ago it was the maih language—because it was the natural local development of Latin before cultivated French took over it. So definitely more relevant than Italian or German, who exclusively belong in the note. Harshly cutting off the French name from the Genevois name (or whatever you want to call it because, for reasons already stated, the name of the language/dialect was never a key part of this conversation either) is a no-no to me. Didn’t need to make it so tedious, you forced me to respond with an unnecessarily cumbersome text. Now, can you stay on topic and say anything regarding the point I raised? ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 23:26, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

Readers of the article can expect to be informed immediately how "Geneva" is pronounced in English and how the French name of this French-speaking city is pronounced:

Geneva (/dʒɪˈniːvə/ ^ⓘ jin-EE-və; French: Genève [ʒ(ə)nɛv] ^ⓘ) is the second-most populous city in Switzerland and the most populous in French-speaking Romandy. (...)

Essential information such as this must not be relegated to a footnote.

Arpitan deserves to be mentioned for historical reasons. But as it is not spoken in Geneva today, listing the ancient Arpitan name and its pronunciation in a note, ahead of German and Italian (!), appears to be a fair solution. Putting it alongside the city's French name would give the impression that the two languages are of similar importance to contemporary Geneva, which is far from true. Entopos (talk) 07:29, 2 April 2026 (UTC)

Well that seems like a fair reasoning, thank you. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 09:12, 2 April 2026 (UTC)