Talk:Gavin Maxwell

Which otter?

The film of Ring of Bright Water has Maxwell buying a European Otter in London; his nephew's biography refers to him being given a Marsh Otter in Iraq. Which happens in the book? Andy Mabbett 12:04, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

Article is correct: his first otter came from Iraq. He adopted one while he was out there, but it died while he was still there. He was then given one shortly before he left Iraq, and it is this one (named Midj?) which he brought back to London and then Scotland.

The otter that died in Iraq was Chahala, the otter that returned to London was Mij (short for Mijbil). The pet-shop otter depicted in the movie (and portrayed by a trained otter, also called Mij) has no direct counterpart in any of the books, although it is clearly inspired by the original Mij. Poglad 19:00, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Relationships

His marriages and homosexuality should probably be mentioned. Botting goes into the marriages, but is by virtue of being an "authorised" biographer quiet on the homosexual relationships. Not sure if there's a source on those.

Could you cite any sources on this? Anyone?

Obvious source would be Frere, Richard (1976) Maxwell's Ghost; London: Victor Gollancz Ltd.

[Maxwell:] "I am a homosexual. Does that worry you?"

[Frere:] "This I think I knew -- it is, after all, common gossip."

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Poglad (talk • contribs)

I've now added this citation. Poglad 17:06, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

There are a lot of stories in Scotland about his supposed homosexuality. I think it is unfair to name names, as these are all gossip, and not necessarily true. Myself, I think he was probably bisexual. --MacRusgail (talk) 17:55, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Maxwell had certain notions about homosexuality in Morocco, which he mentions briefly in Lords of the Atlas (1966, pp. 286-287). Frere discusses this in the same pages quoted above by the user Poglad. Quoting Maxwell, Bruce Dunne ( https://www.jstor.org/stable/41857885 ) writes: "Relying upon several French sources, Gavin Maxwell states that, before the arrival of the French, homosexuality 'between man and boy was never considered shameful or abnormal in Morocco,' that homosexual prostitution existed, and that boys accompanied imperial troops for the satisfaction of sexual needs on military campaigns." This should not be taken as an accurate description but rather as reflecting Maxwell's ideas (and his French sources). 00:18, 7 August 2024 (UTC)Ssegalla (talk)

Sicily and Morocco, and Algeria

Maxwell spent a considerable time in Sicily and wrote a couple of books about the island. Should be mentioned.

I thought that too. Apparently he lived at a tonnara (tuna fishery) close to Scopello some time in the '50s, and based Ten Pains of Death on his experience there. Don't know any more than that, but the external link to the biography by his nephew sheds light. I've tried to track the book down without success. Dw290 10:02, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

This suggestion is correct. In Ten Pains of Death Maxwell describes his life at the Tonnara di Scopello on the Sicilian coast. Chiswick Chap (talk) 19:22, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

I have made some improvements to the Morocco section. --Ssegalla (talk) 14:06, 9 August 2024 (UTC) Maxwell began travelling and writing in Morocco in January 1960, not 1966 (he previously had joined his brother there once on vacation). In 1960, he decided to write a book about Thami al-Glawi, a book which eventually became Lords of the Atlas (1966), but except for a single opening anecdote, this book is not an account of Maxwell's travels. Maxwell wrote about the February 29, 1960 Agadir earthquake in the opening chapter of The Rocks Remain (1963), and describes other experiences in Morocco later in that book. In early 1960 he also met the anticolonial activist Margaret Pope, who worked for Radio Maroc but also was aiding the Algerian FLN. Maxwell travelled to Algeria in January 1961, which he also (briefly) refers to in The Rocks Remain. he made several more trips to Morocco and one more trip to Algeria over the next several years. I (Spencer Segalla) have published the details of this in The Journal of North African Studies; I've added the citation under "Further Reading." The primary source materials are cited in that article. I'm not really sure about the editing rules in Wikipedia and I wasn't sure I should rewrite that section myself. Hope this note is okay.Ssegalla (talk) 00:19, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

Dates

The article gives various dates as years, despite the actual date being readily available. Lack of details, and lack of citations, can all be addressed to improve the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Poglad (talk • contribs)

I have now put in some specific dates. Which was trickier than it looked. So for example the burning down of Sandaig definitely happened on a Sunday - 21 January, it was reported by both local and national newspapers to be the case, whereas in Raven Seek Thy Brother (epilogue) Maxwell said it happened on the early hours of 20 January. I've stuck to the press reports since they were contemporary. Let me know if any of the other events need dates. ChrysGalley (talk) 12:51, 26 July 2025 (UTC)

Simpler Lifestyle

I had to smile at the article's mention of Maxwell pursuing "a simpler lifestyle"... it's hard to imagine a more complex lifestyle than the one he had, notwithstanding the way he presented himself in Ring of Bright Water. More a case of chaotic genius and drama, some would say LOL. Poglad (talk) 08:57, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

Multiple reissues / bibliograhphy

What is the point of listing multiple 'reissues' of his books, with lovingly recorded ISBNs that change each week? New critical editions, illustrated editions, translations ... might be of some interest (as would different versions edited by the author, if there were any), but successive paperback reprints do seem somewhat irrelevant: Wikipedia is not a catalogue. Maybe we could slim the bibliog. down a bit. Chiswick Chap (talk) 19:16, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

I have done some tidying up here and have been broadly guided by Wiki's Style guide bibliography:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Lists_of_works

and since this may be spun off to a separate entry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Bibliographies#Recommended_structure

I've standardised the format on Location: Publisher, Year, similar to the entry for Robert Graves. The Style Guide says ISBN can be included where useful, but to be wary of putting just one ISBN so I've generally put down two ISBNs. Ideally any ISBN used will be among the most easily found version. I've prioritised details on Maxwell's less well known publications, for Ring of Bright Water it should not be difficult to locate the various versions. None of Maxwell's own books had an ISBN in their first editions since they predate the implementation of ISBN, Raven Seek Thy Brother does have a SBN, the forerunner of ISBN. Though I hope this is reasonably thorough, it's by no means a complete bibliographic reference. --ChrysGalley (talk) 19:38, 11 July 2025 (UTC)

London address

There was a Citation Needed on Maxwell's address in Paulton Square, which I've duly added from Botting's biography. However the biography (and Raine's memoir) gives a date for his residence from 1957 to 1965, yet the Blue Plaque clearly visible in the photo on the page says 1961 to 1965. It seems to me that the earlier date is correct since some of the events listed in the biography, including leading up to the writing of Ring of Bright Water in 1959, are evidenced to have happened before 1961. ChrysGalley (talk) 21:13, 3 July 2025 (UTC) Further to the above, having read Raine and Maxwell again, I think this can be explained that Raine passed the lease to Maxwell in 1957, his mother then paid the rent until her death in 1965, but Raine stayed on as a sub-tenant until 1960 when there was some sort of fire. Then in 1961 she moved to another house in the same street. So things like the Electoral Roll may have reflected this move and thus the "official" date.ChrysGalley (talk) 19:56, 31 July 2025 (UTC)

Raine and the Curse

I have now added approx 900 words on the Maxwell-Raine friendship and the curse. Currently (July 2025) it is looking a bit unbalanced, about 35% of the text is this one section, but I'm intending the beef the other areas one by one.ChrysGalley (talk) 19:56, 31 July 2025 (UTC)

New sources

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/profiles/gavin-maxwells-bitter-legacy-was-the-otter-man-the-wildlife-champion-he-appeared-to-be-9595629.html

-- Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:00, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

I added, to the "Further Reading" section, this recently published peer reviewed article: hope it is okay:but then I deleted it, because I ended up including in an endnote/inline citation in the Morocco section: --Ssegalla (talk) 14:06, 9 August 2024 (UTC) Segalla, Spencer. (2024). "Gavin Maxwell in Morocco and Algeria with Margaret Pope and Ahmed Alaoui: public relations networks, anti-imperialism, and travel writing in the era of decolonisation." Journal of North African Studies. https://doi.org/10.1080/13629387.2024.2380397 or https://hcommons.org/deposits/item/hc:68281/ Ssegalla (talk) 12:54, 7 August 2024 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ssegalla (talk • contribs) 23:49, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

New sections added - early years

Today I have added quite a lot of new material, probably close to 1,500 words, on his time before Maxwell's first book. Happy to hear any views or suggestions (including if it's now too detailed). New sections added on education, Oxford, wartime service, Soay and starting out as an artist.

I will move on to the the harder areas - Sicily, Iraq, Sandaig, North Africa, but will start by splitting the existing "Career" section, so I don't have to do bulk uploads. Again, comments welcome. ChrysGalley (talk) 18:46, 14 August 2025 (UTC)

Categories: Bisexual male writers / Scottish bisexual writers

I think these 2 categories should be removed, and replaced with their homosexual equivalents. I will leave this in place, pending consensus.

The reason being that while there are many references and reliable sources to Maxwell's homosexuality, as far as I can tell he never described himself as bisexual. He described himself as homosexual on multiple occasions, and I suspect he would be the best judge. He did research the issue, and referred to homosexuality in The Ten Pains of Death, God Protect me from my Friends, Lords of the Atlas and House of Elrig, in broadly positive terms, but not to bisexuality. His known gay relationships span at least 7 years. Set against this is that he had a brief marriage that didn't survive the honeymoon, and an earlier heterosexual affair with Clemency Glock, which lasted around 2 months. In Botting's official biography there are 11 mentions of his homosexuality, 1 reference by association, and multiple indirect wordings; but the word bisexual does not appear at all. ChrysGalley (talk) 13:56, 30 August 2025 (UTC)