Talk:Free migration

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Libertarianism sidebar.

I removed the libertarianism sidebar since, according to the article, this position is advocated by more groups than just libertarians. "Notwithstanding noteworthy differences among these political ideologies, many libertarians, liberals, socialists, and anarchists advocate open immigration". Hence presenting only a single sidebar is not a neutral position. Kleuske (talk) 13:07, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

Well. Then add other sidebars. :) --GLOBALIST LIBERTARIAN (talk) 13:09, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

Please read WP:SIDEBAR, and refrain from editwarring. Kleuske (talk) 13:16, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

Additionally WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT may be appropriate. Kleuske (talk) 13:16, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

You are edit warring. First you requested a source. I gave you the source. Next you found another justification to revert my edit. Now what? I'm reporting this to a noticeboard to ask for suggestions from other editors. --GLOBALIST LIBERTARIAN (talk) 13:24, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

The policy states Bold, Revert, Discuss. You were bold, I reverted and started the discussion. Once again, see WP:SIDEBAR. That sidebar is inappropriate. Adding a plethora of other sidebars will result in massive clutter. Kleuske (talk) 13:27, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

More reading materials: WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS, WP:SOAPBOX. Please read. Thank you. Kleuske (talk) 13:29, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

The "source" you provided was a link to one of your own edits. If you think that's a reliable source, WP:CIR is applicable. Kleuske (talk) 13:30, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

The sidebar is more than appropriate. I'll do everything in order to add it permanently to that article. What do you think is needed to add that sidebar to that article? Do you think there are needed other sources? I'm open to suggestions. (If you don't have any constructive suggestions, then I would consider your comportment as just hostile towards "libertarianism" or against me - even though I'm new here). 2. There are other articles with more than one sidebar. We can put the sidebars in a collapsed mode. Waiting for suggestions, if you have any... 3. The source was a Book about libertarianism and the basic libertarian positions. --GLOBALIST LIBERTARIAN (talk) 13:35, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

I'm not reading those pages. Stop acting like a bureaucrat. Wikipedia is not a bureaucracy. --GLOBALIST LIBERTARIAN (talk) 13:36, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

I think no sidebar of any political view should be added. I especially object to this one since it a) gives WP:UNDUE weight to one political conviction, b) is not one of libertarianisms main ideologies and is in fact disputed amongst libertarians. Moreover, given your response I have the impression that you're WP:NOTHERE to help build an encyclopedia, but instead use Wikipedia as a WP:SOAPBOX for your political views. I have requested a third opinion. Kleuske (talk) 13:43, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

Ok. I think there's space for more than 1 sidebar. I'll start editing the article in order to ad a section about libertarian theorists and authors who support and write about free movement of people. You are free to write about other ideologies/authors of other ideologies writing about free movement of people. If you are lazy and don't want to do that (add content from other ideologies) that doesn't give you the moral right and legitimacy to remove content that someone else adds, especially if sourced and is proportional to other parts of the article. --GLOBALIST LIBERTARIAN (talk) 13:49, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

Again... WP:BRD. Please gain consensus, which you have not. A promise to write something is not a valid substitute for actual sources or talk-page consensus. I still strongly object to a) the Libertarianism sidebar and b) the attitude you display here. Kleuske (talk) 13:57, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

Articles with more than 1 sidebar : 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_market 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-authoritarianism 3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laissez-faire 4. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty --GLOBALIST LIBERTARIAN (talk) 14:07, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

Free migration is not an intrinsically libertarian idea; its promotion by the EU and CIS make that obvious (let alone the nationalist libertarians who reject it). The argument for multiple sidebars is essentially falling back on other stuff exists, which is a weak argument. Those examples show that multiple sidebars don't contribute meaningfully to navigation, and clutter up articles.

Also, GL, you would do well to understand that Wikipedia does in fact act under a bureaucracy; it even has official WP:Bureaucrats. It's a flexible bureaucracy, but it operates more by rule of law than by force of will, and is inherently cooperative in nature. If you're going to do more than just try to promote your philosophy here, you'll need to get used to that. -Jason A. Quest (talk) 14:58, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

You say: "Free migration is not an intrinsically libertarian idea". Neither are these 2 other concepts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-authoritarianism and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty . Nevertheless they are very fundamental to libertarian theory and philosophy. Those 2 articles I've linked, as well as a great number of other articles, have more than 1 sidebar. That doesn't seem to be a problem in those articles. --GLOBALIST LIBERTARIAN (talk) 15:11, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

Nationalist libertarians – as exemplified by factions in the Tea Party movement – are very much opposed to free migration. And "doesn't seem to be a problem" is simply your opinion; I disagree. -Jason A. Quest (talk) 15:19, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

There is no such thing as "nationalist libertarians", although I know some people who call themselves in a such way. Libertarian theory and principles are very clear about free movement of people. (It's another problem the articles in Wikipedia are not very well writen to represent libertarian theory..). Also the Tea Party, although has some libertarian concepts as for example distrust of Washington DC in no way libertarian. Here's a source for you: " 95. Is the Tea Party libertarian? Overall, the Tea Party movement is not libertarian, though it has many libertarian elements, and many libertarians are Tea Partiers. [...] They share the libertarian view that DC tends to be corrupt, and that Washington often promotes special interests at the expense of the common good. However, Tea Party members are predominantly populist, nationalist, social conservatives rather than libertarians. Polls indicate that most Tea Partiers believe government should have an active role in promoting traditional “family values” or conservative Judeo-Christian values. Many of them oppose free trade and open immigration. They tend to favor less government intervention in the domestic economy but more government intervention in international trade. " (Jason Brennan(2012) Libertarianism What Everyone Needs to Know Oxfrod University Press (Page 142)) --GLOBALIST LIBERTARIAN (talk) 15:33, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

And why should anyone take your word for it? It sounds like a No true scotsman to me. Kleuske (talk) 17:26, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

Learn to comprehend what you read. It's not my word. Is a quote from a reliable source. (Jason Brennan(2012) Libertarianism What Everyone Needs to Know Oxfrod University Press (Page 142)) --GLOBALIST LIBERTARIAN (talk) 10:12, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

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History section?

I know nothing about this but would love to read the history of both restricted and free migration Dakinijones (talk) 16:38, 8 April 2021 (UTC)