Talk:Flatbread

Untitled

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laffa — Preceding unsigned comment added by Drsruli (talk • contribs) 10:56, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

Pizza essentially is made from regular leavened bread dough so is it really a flatbread? In other words, is flatbread necessarily unleavened?

Some flat breads are leavened. Pita is flat, yet leavened. Drsruli (talk) 09:51, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

one of the three points of contention

• • • All, I made a few edits (i.e. removed) some south east asian pancake varieties that showed up under flatbreads. Just a note of clarification to those who originally inserted them, a flatbread is different from a crepe or pancake. A flatbread is made into a dough and then rolled out and cooked on a heated surface (or baked), unlike a crepe or pancake where a somewhat watery dough is prepared and is then "spread" on a heated cooking surface. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:4C28:194:520:5E26:AFF:FEFE:8C40 (talk) 18:13, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

The statement "Indeed, this was one of the three points of contention that brought about the schism between Eastern and Western churches in 1054." does not agree with the article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East-West_Schism, which lists it in the section "Other points of conflict" as one of seven "other" points of conflict. SlaterDeterminant (talk) 04:48, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Damper

what about Damper (food) ? Its not mentioned in article —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.245.81.115 (talk) 11:30, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

This is an old comment but I just went and added it, inspired by recent edits to the article. Graham87 04:25, 29 June 2023 (UTC)

Religious significance

This section doesn't actually explain the religious significance. 92.29.7.2 (talk) 10:20, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Pancakes

Someone removed Pancakes from the list stating that they are not a bread. I disagree. They are probably the most familiar type of flatbread in North America. The editor is anonymous and removed several other examples that I also consider flatbreads, like rye crispbread. I suggest that the edits be reverted. Please discuss. Superstitionfree (talk) 07:00, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

It's been four months. I'm undoing the changes made by 80.101.233.54. Superstitionfree (talk) 13:23, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

They are not Flatbreads

Description of Flatbread: A flatbread, or unleavened bread, is a simple bread made with flour, water, and salt and then thoroughly rolled into flattened dough. Description of Pancake: A pancake is a thin, flat, round cake prepared from a batter. Description of Dough: Dough is a paste made out of any cereals (grains) or leguminous crops by mixing flour with a small amount of water and/or other liquid. Description of Batter: Batter is a semi-liquid mixture of one or more flours combined with liquids such as water, milk or eggs used to prepare various foods.

Batter is not Dough and Dough is not Batter....Try kneading batter and making Tempura with dough, Doh! 109.34.206.112 (talk)

Really, it is to do with liquid content. A batter is a pourable version whereas a dough is workable by hand. However, there are some very big overlaps. For instance, if you make ciabatta bread, the dough is very wet and you stir it with a spoon - you cannot knead it. Both batters and doughs can be made with yeast or soda and so can be leavened. From the culinary point of view, they are in the same group. Joss (talk) 19:15, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

Examples section

I don't see the point of this long enumeration, which almost duplicates Category:Flatbreads.  --Lambiam 18:03, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Does "flatbread" actually exist?

Alright, I know. It's bread and it's flat. But that's a descriptive and not an encyclopedic entity. This "article" seems to be not much more than a long list of breads that are flat (which is not such a novel shape for bread, anyway). Other than the shape, there seems to no unifying characteristic for these breads. (It is like having an article for squarepizza.) Shouldn't this be a list of flat breads or a category? —  AjaxSmack  23:03, 25 April 2014 (UTC)

Given that I just ate some, and the package says "flatbread" on it, I would have to say "yes".  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼  20:50, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

Yes, they very definitely exist as a bread type. Rather important one, historically, since simple flatbreads cooked on the hearthstone next to the fire is probably one of the earliest examples of bread making. Joss (talk) 19:17, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

Requested move 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page not moved. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 21:38, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

---

Flatbread → List of flat breads – RM Listing after two years of no replies to the above comment. —  AjaxSmack  14:32, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

• Oppose. This would work better as a WP:BROADCONCEPT article than a pure list. "Flatbread" is a thing, and, while it is a bit vague thing, it is recorded in dictionaries so the introductory sections could use some expansion. For example, many Mediterranean flatbreads trace their origins to Greco-Roman Tracta (dough), not even mentioned in this article. No such user (talk) 07:24, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
  • ​Yes, the definition says it is "a bread that has a wide surface and little thickness", i.e. a bread that is flat. A perusal of Google Books results yields no definition beyond that either. It is simply used as a descriptive. As there is no formal encyclopedic category of "flatbread", there is no WP:BROADCONCEPT to be had as such. (Even the "wide surface and little thickness" is subjective.) The "article" has no sources for the term and has been a repository list for years. —  AjaxSmack  12:01, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
    • AjaxSmack: The first link in your search results is Jalal Qarooni (6 December 2012). Flat Bread Technology. Springer Science & Business Media. ISBN 978-1-4613-1175-1., its 200 pages entirely devoted to flat breads as a class: history, flour chemistry (impact of flour extraction rate on bread quality), technology, classification ("Dough-based, single-layered"; "batter-based (leavened)", "double-layered"), and what makes them opposed to thick or puffed breads. From another source, North Dakota Wheat Commission: Among the many variations of bread products, flat breads have become increasingly popular. Most Americans are familiar with pita, pizza and focaccia. These are just a small sample of flat breads, an ancient form dating back to the first bread baked by man. Today more than 1.8 billion people worldwide eat traditional flat bread. The appeal of these breads lies in their many styles and shapes, as well as the ethnic flavors that can be applied.
      Flat breads are divided into two major groups:single-layered and double layered.[...] I see a very clear concept here, not merely a descriptive collocation. No such user (talk) 12:20, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
      • I won't belabour the point beyond this but the "Definitions" section at the beginning of the North Dakota Wheat Commission source has no definition; nor does Qarooni from the preview available to me. It is simply bread that is flat; neither sources provides any other commonalities. I don't deny the flat breads exists but "flatbread" seems to be taxonomically of little use (cf. unleavened bread) and the lack of anything but a list in the article seems to bear this out. —  AjaxSmack  13:51, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
        • Yeah, but, A broad-concept article is an article that addresses a concept that may be difficult to write about because it is abstract, or because it covers the sometimes-amorphous relationship between a wide range of related concepts describes exactly that. The sources we found above widely and repeatedly use the term "flat bread" but regularly fail to provide a clear definition because it's... amorphous. I agree that the current article is lacking on prose, and that it could at least use the NDWheat's level of coverage (not sure if I could be arsed to expand it), but I think it offers a better potential for that with the current title. No such user (talk) 14:09, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
          • OK. Sounds reasonable but I'm not optimistic. —  AjaxSmack  14:22, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
• Oppose. This should be a BROADCONCEPT article. It is not problematic that it contains a list. We generally should avoid creating stand-alone list articles in absence of a main article that needs a list in it split out, unless there's an independent reason to have such a list (e.g. to fit into a series of lists about related topics). It would actually be very easy to write several pages of sourced prose on flatbreads and their history, nature, relationships, modern popularity, etc., etc., etc., for anyone who likes writing about food.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼  20:50, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

---

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Pita bread "Slightly leavened"

I am a little confused by this idea of "slightly leavened". The traditional recipe for pita uses much the same amount of yeast as does most bread. However, it is rolled very thin before baking on a stone, so does not have a chance to rise. Whatever the method, it is leavened bread, not slightly leavened. Joss (talk) 19:08, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. Track your hook after promotion. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by TarnishedPath (talk) 10:30, 19 May 2026 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

A flatbread baked in sand

• ... that some communities bake flatbread by covering it in desert sand (pictured)?

• Source: a technique still used today in the nomadic communities of Sinai, southern Tunisia, and Algeria consists in baking bread under a layer of sand, embers, and ash

• • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Copenhagen Tunnel
  • Comment: This was a 20× expansion!!!

5x expanded by Vigilantcosmicpenguin (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 64 past nominations.

— Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 18:33, 11 May 2026 (UTC).

• This is one of more impressive article expansions I've seen nominated at DYK in my many years of volunteering here. Very good work! QPQ is done, no copyright violations detected, no policy issues found. Article was nominated on day of expansion. Solid sources cited throughout, with a comprehensive global coverage of this topic. This is now one of the better food articles on the English language wikipedia. Hook fact is interesting and verified to the cited journal article. Licensing checks out for the photo. I hope this image gets picked, because the quality of this article deserves a lead spot in the Did You Know section. I don't normally praise articles like this in review. Fantastic work. (I note too that much of the original article is now on a separate page at List of flatbreads but formatted into a better and more attractive list).4meter4 (talk) 16:01, 16 May 2026 (UTC)

History

Over at list of ancient dishes, I am reading Archaeobotanical evidence reveals the origins of bread 14,400 years ago in northeastern Jordan, which is currently cited in this article to support "The oldest archaeological excavation of flatbread[112] was at a Natufian site called Shubayqa 1 in Jordan, dating to 12,400 BC, some 4,000 years before the start of agriculture in the region." Would appreciate a second-set of eyes on what it is saying: throughout the paper it refuses to say they have found "flat bread", rather, they have found "flat bread-like products". But there's a bit of tension with that, in the title, and in the "The Identification of Prehistoric Bread" section. Can this paper be used to support the oldest flatbreads identified through archeology being ~14000 years old? Whonting (talk) 13:28, 25 May 2026 (UTC)

The source I cited in the middle of the sentence (Taylor 2023) states, "The oldest archeological finding of a flatbread was in Jordan, which was dated to around 14,500 years ago." This must be referring to the Natufian discovery, so I think it's reasonable to make this statement. Still, you're right to question the claim—Taylor is not a historian, and it's possible that this is a case of citogenesis, as the Natufian discovery was already mentioned on this article. I think there may be a valid argument to delete the statement. Thanks for your comment. — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 20:22, 25 May 2026 (UTC)

GA review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

This review is transcluded from Talk:Flatbread/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Vigilantcosmicpenguin (talk · contribs) 08:53, 11 May 2026 (UTC)

Reviewer: DrOrinScrivello (talk · contribs) 18:50, 4 June 2026 (UTC)

Hello, I'm happy to review this. I'm thoroughly impressed with the work you've done on what was essentially a list article before you got started. I'm doing a second read-through now and will follow that with a light copyedit pass; feel free to revert any changes you disagree with. Prose comments will follow either later today or tomorrow. DrOrinScrivello (talk) 18:50, 4 June 2026 (UTC)

Prose review

This is generally a very well-written article. I made some minor copyedits, and I only have a few relatively minor comments. Some are suggestions and not necessarily part of the GA criteria, and I'll try to indicate when that's the case.

Lead

• The lead in general seems to summarize the article well. It's possible I'll have a suggestion about breadth once we work through the rest of the article, but I doubt it.
• Similar flour-based foods include loaf breads, Since this sentence is contrasting qualities of breads, I think it would work better if it opened with something like, "Flatbreads differ from similar flour-based foods such as..."
  • Makes sense, done. — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 00:40, 7 June 2026 (UTC)
• it undergoes fermentation if leavened, usually with sourdough Reading the rest of the article clarifies this, but I think many readers (<cough> me) may think of sourdough as just a type of bread rather than a particular leavening agent – can this be elaborated upon just a bit in the lead?
  • Done, does this phrasing look good? — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 00:40, 7 June 2026 (UTC)
    • Looks good to me. DrOrinScrivello (talk) 13:05, 9 June 2026 (UTC)
• This is a nitpick and the review won't hinge upon it one way or the other, but the term "flatbread" or its plural appears 349 times in the article (including the infobox and refs, but the vast majority are in the prose). There are 24 instances in the lead alone, with the word beginning many sentences. Now obviously it's the subject of the article and it's going to show up a lot, and in many places the word is necessary, but I think the article – particularly the lead – would read better if at least some of those were substituted with pronouns or "varieties" or nixed entirely (I think the last sentence of the first paragraph could read simply "Many types are eaten globally", for instance). Again, this is not a requirement and my feelings won't be hurt if you say "yeah, not going to do that", but I thought I'd bring it up.
  • Funny that the specific example you mention—"Many types are eaten globally"—is actually the phrasing I originally wrote, before someone else changed it for clarity. I'll leave this statement as it is. But I've rephrased a few other sentences per this suggestion. — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 00:40, 7 June 2026 (UTC)
    • Just goes to show that some of these changes will always come down to personal preference. I think the modifications you made are an improvement though, thanks. DrOrinScrivello (talk) 13:05, 9 June 2026 (UTC)

More to come shortly. DrOrinScrivello (talk) 16:27, 5 June 2026 (UTC)

Back at it...

Ingredients

• Eggs increase protein and micronutrients and also act as leavening. Is "leavening" commonly used as a noun without "agent" tacked on? Genuine question – it's not something I've heard, but wouldn't be surprised if I'm just showing my ignorance.
  • I think you're right. Tweaked. — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 00:40, 7 June 2026 (UTC)

Classification

• They are docked to limit expansion, This is the first mention of docking in the article, and while roller docker is linked later on, I'd still like a little bit of context as to what it actually is.
  • I loosely define docking in the same sentence it is mentioned—stating that it may involve firmly pressing the dough or puncturing it with a roller docker. This is basically the same definition given by Quail 2016; I'm not sure how to give a more declarative definition. — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 00:40, 7 June 2026 (UTC)
    • Gotcha, I think that was mainly just confusion on my part. DrOrinScrivello (talk) 13:05, 9 June 2026 (UTC)

Use

• Is there a reason why pane carasau is italicized but many other non-English terms aren't? I don't have strong feelings whether all should be or shouldn't (though per MOS:FOREIGNITALIC I would lean towards italicizing), just curious as to the inconsistency.
  • Not sure, tbh. My reasoning is simply that the article Pane carasau uses italics, and other article titles do not. — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 00:40, 7 June 2026 (UTC)
    • Fair enough. DrOrinScrivello (talk) 13:05, 9 June 2026 (UTC)

Consumption

• RTE and frozen flatbreads are common as convenient, affordable, and versatile products. Suggest re-introducing the full "ready to eat" phrase since the abbreviation is initially provided multiple sections earlier
  • Done. — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 00:40, 7 June 2026 (UTC)

By region

• Uzbek naan is distinct in its decoration. Does the source mention how?
  • On second thought, removed that statement. The source actually says the decoration is "renowned", not that it's distinct, and the description of the decoration is not necessary as the stamping method is already described earlier. — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 00:40, 7 June 2026 (UTC)

I think that's it for prose. Considering the length of the article, this is an impressively low nitpick-to-word ratio, nicely done. I'll move on to the source review in a bit. @Vigilantcosmicpenguin: tossing a ping your way since I haven't yet, but don't feel rushed, just keeping you abreast of my progress. DrOrinScrivello (talk) 18:08, 5 June 2026 (UTC)

@Vigilantcosmicpenguin: apologies for the delay in getting back to this, been a little under the weather. The above changes look good, though, thank you. I should be able to get to the source review today. DrOrinScrivello (talk) 13:05, 9 June 2026 (UTC)

Source review

Sourcing in general looks good, don't see any items of concern. My spot check is going to be heavy on the handful of sources that I can access, but there are enough that I'm not worried about it being too small of a representative sample.

Spot check

I'm going to be checking ref #s 45, 99, 103, 137, 162, 165, 220, and 241 as of this revision.

• 45. (a) Y (b) Y (c) Y (d) Y (e) Y (f) Y

• 99. (a) Y (b) Y (c) ? The article says a lack of fermentation would result in a gummy texture, while the source says Batter breads like crepes or pancakes will stay gummy in their centres if they aren't leavened, but establishes earlier that leavening can occur solely through steam. While I imagine batter breads are nearly always fermented rather than strictly steam-leavened, I still think the article is making a (very small) leap that the source doesn't quite make. Correct me if I'm wrong in my reading of this. (d) ? I don't see where the source is specifically talking about double-layered, leavened flatbreads on the cited page.
  • (c) The source's statement about batter breads comes after the sentence Most flatbreads rely more on sourdough or yeast for leavening power. Given this context, I think it is clear that he is using the word "leavened" to refer to to fermentation. — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 21:23, 9 June 2026 (UTC)
  • (d) Hm, looks like I was citing the source's statement about pita, but it's imprecise for me to generalize that. Removed the citation and rephrased based on the other sources. — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 21:23, 9 June 2026 (UTC)
• 103. (a) Y (b) Y

• 137. ? The source says more than 12,986 flatbreads are currently commercially available, and An overview of the nutritional composition of the most popular flatbreads (i.e., tortillas, pita bread, naan, parathas, and focaccias) launched between 2015 and 2021 in the global market is summarized in Table 2. Tables 2 and 3 seem to indicate that they analyzed 3,481 of those products, so I don't think the article can confidently state the 64% and 95% figures of 12,987 products.
  • I think tables 2 and 3 are only referring to a subset of Mintel's data. Still, rephrased the statement to be a bit to avoid the assumption that their analysis included every product. — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 21:23, 9 June 2026 (UTC)

Taking a break here, will finish later this afternoon. DrOrinScrivello (talk) 16:17, 9 June 2026 (UTC)

Resuming...

• 162. Y

• 165. Y (side note: I think the addition of a bit of context here would be beneficial – "Laws in Medieval Italy restricted the use of ovens to the upper classes", perhaps)
  • Rephrased. — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 21:23, 9 June 2026 (UTC)
• 220. Y

• 241. Y

That should do it for the spot check. Nothing major, just a few things to take a look at. DrOrinScrivello (talk) 18:49, 9 June 2026 (UTC)

• @DrOrinScrivello: I think I have addressed everything. Thanks for the review and the helpful comments! — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 21:23, 9 June 2026 (UTC)
  • All of the above looks good. DrOrinScrivello (talk) 16:18, 10 June 2026 (UTC)

Image review and misc criteria

• Article is illustrated well for a topic that deserves it. All images are properly licensed and captioned. ALT text is not a GA requirement but I appreciate that it's been added.

• Article is stable and written from an NPOV. It is sufficiently detailed without going into excessive detail or tangential information. Its breadth of coverage is impressive for such a global subject. Earwig is unhelpful with so many offline sources, but no CLOP concerns were raised during the spot check.

And with that, I'm satisfied that this article meets the GA criteria and am happy to pass. Congratulations to @Vigilantcosmicpenguin: and all others who have worked on it! DrOrinScrivello (talk) 16:18, 10 June 2026 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.