Talk:Fine Gael

Centre-right classification

What is the justification for continuing to classify FG as "Centre-right"? All of the citations for doing so are between 10 and 25 years old. Since then most significant changes led by FG led or involved government have been left wing or liberal (e.g legalising gay marriage, legalising abortion, as well as attempting to change the constitution in 2024 to remove reference to a woman's role in the home and to remove the special role of marriage).

On their website, the party describes themselves as a party of the centre: https://www.finegael.ie/the-party/our-values/

It seems to me that the centre-right classification is no longer accurate, and they should be reclassified as belonging to the centre. 2A02:8085:B13E:4700:61F6:6BD8:DDB3:D4 (talk) 10:14, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

It might be worth noting that major news sources are now largely referring to both FF and FG as centrist.

1. https://www.politico.eu/article/ireland-centrist-party-coalition-deal-government-micheal-martin-dianna-fail-simon-harris-fine-gael/
2. https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jun/06/nearly-all-minority-fine-gael-candidates-targeted-by-racist-abuse-and-threats-europe-elections-ireland
3. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cyxx9rrwgzvo
The "centre-right" label should not be ditched though, and if the issue is with old citations then we can bring in new ones (which I will do), such as Langsæher's "Party families in Western Europe" (2023) and Holmes' chapter in "Ireland and the European Union" (2021) which both assert that the party is centre-right.

I suggest changing the position to "centre to centre-right", like FF and similar parties in Europe such as Renaissance & Us Moderates. Horarum (talk) 11:03, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

I wholeheartedly agree with that. In order to fully represent the policies of Fine Gael, it should say centre to centre-right as Fine Gael is in line with all the major pro-European centrist parties across the EU. I would also consider the fact that they still support rent control (unlike Fianna Fail who said that they would be "reviewing the measure before making a final decision") and price controls on childcare as well as their various progressive social stances that were highlighted above as evidence that there is even a slight centre-left to the party in some areas of policy. RugbyLover25 (talk) 16:20, 12 March 2025 (UTC)

Since nobody else has weighed in, I have edited the article to describe the party as centre to centre-right with relevant references. In the ideology section, I also included a note that the Christian democratic credentials of Fine Gael were challenged by Langsæher. He did not outright describe them as not being Christian democratic, but noted that the party is unique within the ideological family for its emphasis on the economy and social liberalism. Horarum (talk) 13:16, 21 March 2025 (UTC)

Hi Horarum,

While I think we can find sources that refer to both Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil as centrist (certainly in comparison to other European parties), the question is would a majority of sources in the last 5 years refer to them as centrist? Or even 50/50 between centre vs centre-right? Because I would still imagine a majority of sources, particularly Irish ones, would still defer to the term centre-right.

I'm not hardline opposed to the phrasing "Centre to Centre-right" if it can be shown that's reflective of a majority of recent sources, but currently I'm skeptical. I know there hasn't been much discussion so far (and thus you were perfectly entitled to go ahead with your edit) but I'd like to see at one or two more active users weight in on this. CeltBrowne (talk) 15:40, 21 March 2025 (UTC)

There has been several articles in recent years describe Fine Gael as a centrist party and their own official website confirms this. I will be changing their political position to reflect this. Centre to centre-right is the most accurate statement that represents their ideology. RugbyLover25 (talk) 12:05, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

We're still hitting in the same problem as before though. While it's true we can find sources that describe them as centrist, the question remains do a majority of reliable, secondary sources refer to them as that? This policy comes up in WP:WEIGHT.

their own official website confirms this

Their own website is an example of a primary source and bares little to no weight on the discussion, as on Wikipedia we use reliable, secondary sources. Please see Wikipedia:No original research#Using sources for more information. CeltBrowne (talk) 12:54, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

I understand where you're coming from. I should be able to find a significant number of secondary sources that are considered reliable, such as the Irish Times, the Irish Independent, the Irish Examiner and Politico, which describe them as centrist. If these sources match the number of sources offered on this page that consider them centre-right, I presume that would be sufficient grounds to describe them as centre to centre-right. RugbyLover25 (talk) 13:25, 14 April 2025 (UTC)

I have successfully located academic sources to back up the numerous articles that describe Fine Gael as a centrist party. These include Encyclopaedia Britannica (reference-level academic source), S. Müller (2021), Irish Political Studies and Michael Laver - “Are Irish Parties Peculiar?” (British Academy). I'll happily wait for approval and I think this is finally comprehensive enough along with the eight or so recent news articles domestically and internationally that describe them as centrist. RugbyLover25 (talk) 10:05, 10 September 2025 (UTC)

Michael Ring's quote is mostly a primary source - Can't be used per WP:Primary

Gary Murphy of the Examiner is an opinion article - Can't be used per WP:NOTOPINION

When people say "Academic source", they mean like a journal source as might be found on JSTOR or in a political textbook. Encyclopaedia Britannica is not bad but it's not to the level of an in-depth journal article or political book.

You'll notice that none of the citations for the "centre-right" designation are news article, they're all academic sources. That's the sort of level needed for a contentious issue like this. CeltBrowne (talk) 10:28, 10 September 2025 (UTC)

Here are some "Academic" sources that match the number of the same type that describe Fine Gael as centre-right describing them as a centrist party. Adding “centrist” alongside “centre-right” reflects the full range of reliable academic sources. Multiple peer-reviewed and scholarly works explicitly describe Fine Gael (and Fianna Fáil) as centrist parties, not solely centre-right. This ensures WP:NPOV and WP:RS compliance.

Müller, S. (2021). “Are Irish voters moving to the left?” Irish Political Studies, 36(4), 591–610 — refers to Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil as “centrist and centre-right parties.”

Reidy, T. (2025). “Candidate Selection,” in How Ireland Voted 2024 (Palgrave Macmillan) — describes “the centrist parties of Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil.”

Fattibene, G. et al. (2024). The Far-Right Ecosystem in Ireland (ICCT) — calls them “the two centrist parties.”

Friedberg, J. J. (2020). “Brexit, the Misrepresentation of Democracy, and the Rock of Gibraltar,” University of Bologna Law Review — refers to “the duopolist Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil centrist parties.”

A Farewell to Peace? Escalating Risk and Fading Resilience (Oxford University Press, 2024) — describes Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael as “two centrist parties.” RugbyLover25 (talk) 16:15, 9 October 2025 (UTC)

Fine Gael ideology

I think the ideology of fine geal should be changed to that of progressive centerism as the party is socially liberal but fiscally conservative and most members such as minister for health are in favour of means testing 2001:BB6:28C2:BE00:7005:9A03:B27C:E05 (talk) 17:44, 25 June 2025 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Fine Gael logo, circa 2009.svg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 04:08, 19 July 2025 (UTC)

Restoring Fully Sourced Fine Gael Content (Academic Parity Reached)

The recent edit made on the Fine Gael page reverted several paragraphs of fully sourced, neutrally worded material about Fine Gael’s ideology and policies. One of the previous discussions established that matching the number of academic sources on both the “centrist” and “centre-right” labels would meet the standard for inclusion. I had done so and the material cited multiple peer-reviewed scholarly works as well as various reliable news outlets. The revert comment only stated “Revert, attain consensus first.” I’m therefore opening this section to reach consensus. Unless new, policy-based objections are raised within 48 hours, I plan to restore the sourced version per WP:BRD. RugbyLover25 (talk) 19:30, 18 October 2025 (UTC)

I've once again restored the consensual revision, as I had no idea this message existed. After looking through the sourcing, I've come to the same conclusion, it's WP:UNDUE to describe the party as centrist.

The quote from the first source you've provided would be WP:OR if used to tack on a "centre" label to Fine Gael, as the phrasing of the sentence could be meant to describe FF as centrist and FG as centre-right. It also refers to both parties in the abstract as "competing around a centre-right policy agenda".

The third source is self-contradictory, within the same paragraph you've quoted, it describes them both as centre-right and centrist (to be clear, not in the way that your revision does, listing both positions as a range or asserting that sourcing has described them both ways, but actually asserting both positions as separate claims).

The fourth source has a singular mention of "centrist", and that mention is cited to an Economist article with no author listed, and I personally can't identify whether it's an opinion piece or not.

The second and fifth sources are inaccessible to me, so I can't verify whether the quotes you've taken from them are given appropriate context nor can I verify whether the source provides a contrary descriptor as well.

I've now taken it upon myself to find more sources discussing the party's political position, to try and demonstrate that the proposed "centrist" label is undue weight.

• O'Neill, Thomas (2021-03-16). "Left-Wing Prospects: A Sinn Féin Model". Brown Political Review. ... the country's political landscape has remained dominated by a duopoly of centre-right parties: Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael.

  Fiorella, Kennedy (2022-06-13). "Shifting to the Left: The Rise of Sinn Féin in the 2020 Irish General Election". The two longstanding centre-right political parties are Fine Gael ...

  Gallagher, Michael (2025-10-01). "The Results Analysed: The Centre Strikes Back". doi:10.1007/978-3-031-93795-8_9. ISBN 978-3-031-93795-8. The domination of the post-election government by centre-right parties and the mainly left-wing orientation of the opposition suggests that the party system may be moving towards a clearer left–right competition than Ireland has experienced in the past.{{cite web}}: CS1 maint: periodical has ISBN (link)

– GlowstoneUnknown (Talk) 06:44, 21 October 2025 (UTC)