Talk:Fadettes of Boston

GA review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Fadettes of Boston/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: OpalYosutebito (talk · contribs) 17:48, 10 November 2025 (UTC)

Reviewer: MCE89 (talk · contribs) 09:08, 11 January 2026 (UTC)

Good Article review progress box

Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

I'll take this review. I'll try to add my initial comments within the next day or so. MCE89 (talk) 09:08, 11 January 2026 (UTC)

Before I get into the review, I'd like to ask about the Rosaria Macera source , given that a fair amount of the article relies on it. As far as I can tell this seems to be a paper written for a graduate course, which seems unlikely to be a reliable source. Could you tell me if there's something I'm missing here that makes this source reliable? MCE89 (talk) 09:28, 11 January 2026 (UTC)

It's early in the morning for me right now, so I'll look at the bibliography section later - OpalYosutebito 『talk』 『articles I want to eat』 11:49, 11 January 2026 (UTC)

I'm currently trying to replace the direct citations to the paper with those cited in the paper, if that makes sense. For instance, Macleod 1993 has already been in the article - OpalYosutebito 『talk』 『articles I want to eat』 16:55, 11 January 2026 (UTC)

@MCE89 pardon the ping, but should I still keep the Edwards source? I'm assuming not, if graduate papers aren't allowed... - OpalYosutebito 『talk』 『articles I want to eat』 02:28, 12 January 2026 (UTC)

I’m okay with the Edwards source. The relevant guideline is WP:THESIS, which says that PhD dissertations can be reliable in certain cases. In this case the thesis had a review committee of academics who seem like they have expertise in this area, and it’s been cited a dozen or so times in the literature. Since those are the main two things that WP:THESIS identifies as indicators that a PhD thesis is a reliable source, I’m not concerned about it. In contrast, there’s no review or screening process for a regular class assignment submitted for a masters course, so it doesn’t seem like there’s any reason to think the Macera source would be reliable. MCE89 (talk) 03:24, 12 January 2026 (UTC)

Good to know! :D - OpalYosutebito 『talk』 『articles I want to eat』 03:28, 12 January 2026 (UTC)

Just a heads-up, it's late in my area (around 11 pm), so I might not be able to respond to comments ASAP - OpalYosutebito 『talk』 『articles I want to eat』 03:59, 12 January 2026 (UTC)

@MCE89 hi! I removed the Macera source, making it into a "further reading" document instead. As always, please let me know if there's anything else for me to do :D - OpalYosutebito 『talk』 『articles I want to eat』 18:42, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

Thanks for that, and sorry for the slowness on my end! I've had some unexpected RL commitments pop up this week that have delayed getting to this, but am planning to add the bulk of my review comments tomorrow. MCE89 (talk) 12:39, 14 January 2026 (UTC)

Good to know! I hope things get better on your end :) - OpalYosutebito 『talk』 『articles I want to eat』 14:38, 14 January 2026 (UTC)

All comments now added below, sorry again for the delay! Overall this is looking good — just a few suggestions on prose/content and this should meet the criteria. There's also at least one place where the wording is a little closer to the Tick source than I'd like, but after doing some more spot checks it doesn't look like there's any significant close paraphrasing issues. If you can double check your paraphrasing of that source then I'm happy passing this. MCE89 (talk) 08:49, 16 January 2026 (UTC)

The quote about men in the women's orchestra: "if a suitable woman could not be found to play a particular instrument, use a man instead." I hope this helps! :) - OpalYosutebito 『talk』 『articles I want to eat』 14:28, 16 January 2026 (UTC)

I updated the file's tag that you mentioned :D - OpalYosutebito 『talk』 『articles I want to eat』 01:01, 17 January 2026 (UTC)

@MCE89 please let me know if you have any other concerns. I appreciate your help! :D - OpalYosutebito 『talk』 『articles I want to eat』 19:53, 17 January 2026 (UTC)

@OpalYosutebito Looks good! Just one remaining concern — I'm not sure that quote about men performing in the orchestra quite verifies the article's claim. The source doesn't mention anything about women's clothing, and the source seems to just refer to women's orchestras in general, rather than the Fadettes specifically. MCE89 (talk) 08:35, 18 January 2026 (UTC)

Done, as far as I know! :) - OpalYosutebito 『talk』 『articles I want to eat』 11:16, 18 January 2026 (UTC)

Looks good to me, passing this now! Congrats. MCE89 (talk) 11:23, 18 January 2026 (UTC)

Initial checks

• Images: All public domain and appropriately captioned and placed, although it looks like File:1906 Keiths TremontSt Boston USA byDetroitPublishingCo LC.jpg should really have a PD-US-expired tag on Commons instead of PD-old given that it's a US work published pre-1931
• Copyright: Nothing of concern on Earwig. Will do further checks for close paraphrasing as part of my spot checks
• Stability and authorship: No issues

Prose and general comments

• The statement in the lead that The orchestra's success led to a significant rise in opportunities for American women in music isn't really supported by anything in the body anymore, suggest removing or qualifying this claim in the lead
• making Nichols one of the first female professional orchestra conductors in the United States - This doesn't seem quite right, since if I'm understanding correctly, she didn't become a professional until later on (given that the orchestra initially operated as an amateur club)? The source seems to just call her a pioneer conductor rather than specifying that she was a professional
• During the 19th and 20th centuries, women faced discrimination in the musical industry. This led to the rise of all-women orchestras, originally known as lady orchestras. - This feels a little vague. Is there anything more specific in the sources about their origins, e.g. anything about the earliest women’s orchestras or about what specifically motivated their formation?
• From 1888 to 1920, the Fadettes gave over $500,000 ($17.5 million in 2024) to over 600 female musicians - The verb "gave" also feels slightly vague. Was this in the form of salaries to the ensemble’s performers, or were they giving money to other female musicians?
• and they played classical music alongside popular compositions - I’m not sure how this quite connects to the previous half of the sentence at the moment, suggest making the linkage clearer
• When a female musician was absent, a man dressed in woman's clothing took her place to create the illusion of an all-female orchestra - I couldn't find this in the source, although I may have missed it - can you point out the relevant quote?
• Purely a suggestion, but I’m not sure explicitly referencing Edwards' “club model” vs. “career model” framework by those terms really adds that much to the reader’s understanding. I think (at the very least in the lead) it would be much clearer to more just say something like “The ensemble initially operated as a club of local women, but as it expanded it began more regularly touring and performing for paying audiences”

Source review

• No remaining concerns about source reliability as far as I could see. The handful of uses of older and primary sources all seem reasonable
• I did a brief search for additional sources and didn't find anything to suggest that the article fails the breadth requirement

This table checks 4 passages from throughout the article (14.8% of 27 total passages). These passages contain 5 inline citations (16.1% of 31 in the article). Generated with the Veracity user script. MCE89 (talk) 08:49, 16 January 2026 (UTC)

Reference #	Letter	Source	Archive	Status	Notes
Nichols previously performed as a violinist for the Marion Osgood Ladies Orchestra, which she deemed too restrictive, causing her to leave.
6		Edwards 2015, pp. 19–24.
The original group of 6 expanded to 20 by 1898, the same year vaudeville manager B.F. Keith booked the Fadettes into his theatres across the United States.
5	b	Tick 1973, p. 102.			This verifies, but is a little too closely worded to the source in my view. The source says (overlap bolded): The original group of six expanded to twenty by 1898, when the vaudeville manager B.F. Keith booked them into his theatres all over the United States
Starting around 1918, most of their later music accompanied films that played in Boston and New York theatres. This was due to Nichols's growing interest in musical accompaniment for silent films.
17		Spitzer 2012, p. 75.

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. You can locate your hook here. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by HurricaneZeta (talk) 15:34, 28 January 2026 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

• ... that the Fadettes of Boston was named after the titular character of George Sand's novel La Petite Fadette? Source: Edwards, Anna (2015). Gender and the Symphonic Conductor (Thesis). University of Washington. p. 20 – via University of Washington.
  • Reviewed:

Improved to Good Article status by OpalYosutebito (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

- OpalYosutebito 『talk』 『articles I want to eat』 01:38, 19 January 2026 (UTC).

• Source checks out and the hook is short enough. Article was promoted to GA status on January 18, is well-sourced, and long enough. No copyright concerns. No QPQ necessary. Ruby2010 (talk) 23:25, 22 January 2026 (UTC)