Talk:Etche

Divide into two pages, one for ethnic group, one for LGA?

This page introduces Etche as an ethnic group, but has an infobox for the LGA, and no infobox for the ethnic group. Should there be separate pages for the people and the government area that's named after them? - Plandu (talk) 22:30, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

Are the Etche a subgroup of the Igbo? Sources, please!

Etche is an indigenous ethnic group in present day Nigeria. It is not Igbo, has never been, and will never be. Non Etche people, the Igbos in particular have for decades continued to oppress, suppress and forcefully attempting to annex all minorities south of the Niger river for political and economic gains, and the Wikipedia platform continues to enable and protect this barbaric literary ethnic genocide on a peace loving group of people. As an Echie person, I find this unacceptable and I call on Wikipedia to put a stop to this.

You leave your region to come match on our streets in Port Harcourt and its environs declaring that our lands now belong to you. You use derogatory terms on us and you stage rallies in our communities - causing havocs for us and people who live in our communities. How on earth are non Etche people empowered to rewrite the history of Etche? Why cannot we be allowed to live our lives in peace? What kind of Igbo supremacy project is Wikipedia advancing?

Igbos, we know you are on a mission for political relevance and possible cessation. I respect your choices and your rights to self determination, but please tell your workgroups to leave Echie out of your schemes.

Please see a list of indigenous people from Niger Delta of Nigeria:

http://mobile.ipund.org/page-4

Please see these articles from 2013, where my people are making it clear that we are not Igbos. We may be neighbors, but that doesn't mean we are a sub of anyone.

https://theneighbourhoodonline.com/2013/06/12/open-letter-to-the-honorable-minister-of-niger-delta-affairs-elder-godsday-orubebe/

https://clonlesley.blogspot.com/2016/09/etche-endangered-ethnicityby-nwankwo.html

https://allafrica.com/stories/201308190182.html

Thank you!

Eze-Basil Oluo BasilOluo (talk) 19:41, 18 February 2020 (UTC)

— Preceding unsigned comment added by BasilOluo (talk • contribs) 16:43, 18 February 2020 (UTC)

BasilOluo, I truly understand how you feel, but I must tell you that Wikipedia is not for speculation or rumour. We deal with reliable sources and you don't seem to have provided one to prove your point. The reliable sources I saw online are clarifying that Etche people are truly a subgroup of the Igbo as can be seen in and . Also note that Wikipedia is not a web host for what you and your friends made up. All additions must be verifiable. Best. NNADIGOODLUCK (Talk|Contribs) 19:55, 18 February 2020 (UTC)

Sticking to concensus

Hello Wmbata

I think we should be careful describing the Etche as an "Igbo subgroup" unless there are high-quality secondary sources that explicitly use that classification.

From the sources I've reviewed, the Etche are consistently described as an ethnic group or ethnic nationality in Rivers State. For example:

• Cancer in Nigeria: 2009–2016 (NCBI Bookshelf) lists the Etche among the ethnic groups of Rivers State.
• Indigenous Institutions and Conflict Resolution in Etche Ethnic Nationality of Rivers State, Nigeria (Journal of Society and Environment, Ignatius Ajuru University of Education) consistently refers to the Etche as an "ethnic nationality."
• Other peer-reviewed publications similarly describe the Etche as an "ethnic nationality" or "ethnic group" with a distinct language, culture, and traditions.

If you have a source that describes Etche as Igbo-speaking, that is about the languages they speak. However, describing a people as Igbo-speaking is not necessarily the same as describing them as an "Igbo subgroup." Unless reliable secondary sources explicitly support the latter terminology, I don't think the lead should go beyond what the sources state.

If there are high-quality academic sources that explicitly describe the Etche as an "Igbo subgroup," please present them so we can evaluate whether that wording better reflects the balance of the literature.

. Dolpina (talk) 16:28, 24 July 2026 (UTC)

I checked both sources provided by you, first of which didn't explicitly state as a seperate ethnic group and second of which i couldn't find any keyword of etche in it. Previous sources here identify etche as a clan or tribe of the broader Igbo ethnic group linguistically, culturally and socio-politicaly residing in present day Rivers State. Maybe you need to understand the core difference between the word ethnic group, tribe, subgroup and clans. Wmbata (talk) 16:41, 24 July 2026 (UTC)

And again, here on this talk page, this article is identified to fall under Igbo Wiki Project Wmbata (talk) 16:44, 24 July 2026 (UTC)

Doesnt matter. It can be a left over from a clarified case and wasn't moved since the last edit stated ethnicity. Stick to sourced material and dont pov push if subject is contentious. Dolpina (talk) 17:39, 24 July 2026 (UTC)

And please do not make comments that appear as gaslighting to me, I don't take kindly to that, and won't going forward stand for it. I'm not interested in merry-go-round arguments or attacks. Stick to using sources. Thanks. Dolpina (talk) 17:50, 24 July 2026 (UTC)

Sorry if my wording appears gaslighting to you, regarding the Article i have provided a better source identifying Etche as an Igbo subgroup and its people speaking the Igbo land. Best! Wmbata (talk) 20:26, 24 July 2026 (UTC)

No you didn't provide better sources, you removed my 4 sources from more notable books and materials stating etche as a distinct ethnicity of its own, including one listing it seperate from igbo very clearly with page number stated, and replaced it with a pulse ng article. You are not engaging with the sourced material and you are literally POV pushing, again... And engaged in edit warring. I have informed you of the ANI on your talk page. Dolpina (talk) 20:30, 24 July 2026 (UTC)

Even your pulse ng article describes them as a ethnicity of their own. Did you read your own "source"? What is this?? Dolpina (talk) 20:33, 24 July 2026 (UTC)

I didn't provide the pulse ng source. Wmbata (talk) 20:38, 24 July 2026 (UTC)

I dont have time for time wasting. Inviting other users.

@Kowal2701 Dolpina (talk) 20:38, 24 July 2026 (UTC)

Sorry, I'm swamped with AI cleanup atm, I'd recommend filing this at WP:3O Kowal2701 (talk, contribs) 20:40, 24 July 2026 (UTC)

Okay, thank you. Dolpina (talk) 20:41, 24 July 2026 (UTC)

Request for third opinion

I am requesting a third opinion regarding how the Etche should be described in this article.

Several reliable sources describe the Etche as an ethnic group or an ethnic minority in Rivers State. The current disagreement is whether the lead should identify the Etche as an ethnic group in accordance with the cited sources, rather than the other user wanting to describe them as an Igbo subgroup.

Relevant sources have been presented during the discussion on Etche being an ethnicity, but consensus has not been reached. I would appreciate a neutral third opinion on how the article should summarize the available reliable sources in accordance with Wikipedia's content policies, including WP:V, WP:NPOV, and WP:RS.

Diff: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Etche&oldid=1365832734

Page 511 (Legitimate Governance in Africa International and Domestic Legal Perspectives 2024) https://books.google.com.ng/books?id=8Mb7EAAAQBAJ&pg=PA511&dq=etche+people+ethnicity&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&source=gb_mobile_search&ovdme=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwijj4fW8OuVAxVJbEEAHUW8OTUQ6AF6BAgJEAM#v=onepage&q&f=false . Page 22 (A Tri-Generational Study of Language Choice and Shift in Port Harcourt) By Kelechukwu Ihemere · 2007 https://books.google.com.ng/books?id=uwk5IkralBAC&pg=PA22&dq=etche+people+ethnicity&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&source=gb_mobile_search&ovdme=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjqgLKg8uuVAxVHV0EAHaV7NO04ChDoAXoECA4QAw#v=onepage&q&f=false

https://www.channelstv.com/2013/06/13/amaechi-says-rivers-governorship-to-rotate-among-ethnic-group/

Dolpina (talk) 20:53, 24 July 2026 (UTC)

Source provided describes Ndị Echie (Etche) as Igbo speaking people in Rivers state, speaking the Eche/Echie/Etche dialect of the broader Igbo/Igboid language.

An Atlas of Nigeria Languages

The Atlas of Nigerian Languages classifies Eche/Echie/Echie as an outlying Igbo dialect, which supports the wording that the Etche are Igbo people not just linguistically, but cultural and socio-politicaly (infact, in everything). Just because they are not in present day southeastern Nigeria doesn't mean they are not Igbo, Political geography dosent change the core Igbo heritage. Igbo people spans across South East, South South and North Central Nigeria.

During the Biafra war, the then head of state of Nigeria carved oil rich producing Igboland into the Niger Delta (which include the Etche, Ikwerre, Ndoki, Ukwuani, Ika and others), they did this to politically cause division and to weaken the new nation (Biafra). Wmbata (talk) 16:37, 25 July 2026 (UTC)

Their are multiple sources explaining this, one of which is The Armed Forces Instrument of peace which explains this political division. Page 415 explains that the military government created twelve states in may 1967, with it main political goals was to undermine support for Biafra by altering ethnic boundaries and encouraged;

"...a number of groups that spoke dialects of the Igbo language, which are mostly located in the Niger Delta, to abandon a pan-Igbo ethnic identity for new minority identities such as Ikwerre, Ekpeye, Etche, Ogba and Ndoni..."

This proves that the creation of this new administrative states in 1967 divided Igbo lands especially the oil rich producing land(tribe, subgroups, clans) to adopt a localized minority identities within the newly formed Rivers State and Delta. This Igbo group includes Ikwerre, Etche, Ukwuani, Ika and others. Wmbata (talk) 16:44, 25 July 2026 (UTC)

The Etche are classified as a subgroup of the Igbo (Ibo) people in the official ‘’Census of Nigeria, 1931: Southern Provinces’’, where they are listed under the Ibo group in the table of indigenous native populations as a sub tribe of Igbo. This is in Talbot Percy’s 1921 published book on the People’s of Southern Nigeria (Nwa Mbata) (talk) 20:15, 25 July 2026 (UTC)

When a claim is contested and has material saying otherwise, in wikipedia that is stated. You do not side with your opinion as many sources there call them an ethnicity of their own. Both sides should be clearly stated, especially the most notable opinions.

Any other active unrelated Wikipedia africa users can please take a look at this. If you are free @Kwesi Yema

(Dolpina) (talk) 12:27, 26 July 2026 (UTC)

Response to third opinion request:

Better sources needed - none of the sources on either side of this dispute are very good. Dolpina's sources: The first is a law book, which is not ideal for determining whether a group is an ethnic group or not. It's focused on legal matters, ethnic group determination is out of the author's expertise. The second source is a book published by Universal Publishers, which focuses on self-published non-fiction, making it not a reliable source. The third is a news article, which also should not be used for sensitive topics like this one. Wmbata's sources: The first is a linguistics-based source, which is not useful for ethnic group determination. It's possible to speak the Igbo language while not being Igbo. For example, I speak English without being English (ethnic group). The second source talks about the potential political motives at play. While interesting, that is also irrelevant for this purpose. It's possible for a group to be differentiated for political purposes while still being an ethnic group. See the Origins of Hutu, Tutsi and Twa for an example. The third source is too old to be used; colonial ethnography is generally untrustworthy. I'd advise both of you to read WP:Reliable sources and find sources that meet the criteria laid out there. InfernoHues (talk) 20:57, 27 July 2026 (UTC)