Talk:David Benaron

Comment: Trim out the known_for section in infobox. The infobox isn't meant to be a mini-resume AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 20:12, 18 October 2018 (UTC) Comment: Definitely notable, but I would remove/tweak some of the fluff in the article (see the Entrepreneur and Personal life sections) Bkissin (talk) 18:27, 18 October 2018 (UTC)

New edit suggestions

I've just joined Wikipedia as a contributor and am keen to get started on some edits - my interest area is medical pioneers and entrepreneurs. There's a header on this article identifying "multiple issues", so I've had a look and have some suggested edits that are (briefly) as follows:

- More general detail, including addition of wiki links throughout

- Completing the "Career" section - to incorporate academic and entrepreneurial career, including new content on academic work, plus a "Digital health" subheading on his more recent work in mobile health tech and wearables

- Updated references list (including correction of link with 404 error)

- New "External links" section

As a newbie, I'd be grateful of any initial thoughts before I go to edit the page.

Thanks!

Seagull019 (talk) 11:39, 29 January 2019 (UTC)

death

died 2025-07-18

2001:9E8:8087:1800:2D18:C93:F6D8:8E5A (talk) 21:12, 19 July 2025 (UTC)

We will need to wait for this to be reported in a reliable source. GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 21:27, 19 July 2025 (UTC)

https://www.smdailyjournal.com/news/local/san-mateo-county-death-notices-july-18-to-july-21-2025/article_dfcba442-e712-44b4-9468-717c0eb6088f.html

Here is a source from a legitimate publication citing the coroner's office as a source. I'm letting someone else edit the page however as I'm extremely rusty at editing. Ardyn (talk) 08:44, 22 July 2025 (UTC)

I can also confirm the news is sadly real but yes good to wait for the obituary. Xearis (talk) 22:05, 19 July 2025 (UTC)

https://www.flayrah.com/9371/dr-david-spottacus-benaron-furry-known-work-foundational-smartwatch-heartrate-monitors-passes Ardyn (talk) 09:33, 20 July 2025 (UTC)

I understand and appreciate the effort to ensure Wikipedia is up-to-date, but announcing that someone has died is important to get right, and it's better to be slow than wrong. A reliable, secondary source such as a newspaper will do the necessary work to ensure that the social media or blog posts are genuine (or separately verify Benaron's death), at which point Wikipedia can reflect that source. WP:BLP has more detail on policy here. GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 14:15, 20 July 2025 (UTC)

The twitter link referenced is quite literally a first party source. It was Benaron's spouse. 2600:6C5E:3800:C8C:5D1A:55E8:EA69:1135 (talk) 17:53, 20 July 2025 (UTC)

The relevant sections from WP:BLP are:

Exercise extreme caution in using primary sources. [...] Where primary-source material has been discussed by a reliable secondary source, it may be acceptable to rely on it to augment the secondary source.

and

Never use self-published sources—including but not limited to books, zines, websites, blogs, podcasts, and social network posts—as sources of material about a living person.

which is why GorillaWarfare is emphasizing the importance of secondary sources. Iiii I I I (talk) 18:21, 20 July 2025 (UTC)

The website has a masthead and likely editorial standards. EIC is User:GreenReaper who has in the past contributed to enwn, where I now contribute. See also this 13-year-old RSN discussion, but this is definitely not a self-pub'd site. SWinxy (talk) 03:49, 21 July 2025 (UTC)

I was responding to the IP's belief that the Twitter post (a primary source) is definitive proof. I hadn't looked at flayrah.com. Iiii I I I (talk) 04:20, 21 July 2025 (UTC)

Hey, yes. The basic idea is that Twitter/Bluesky accounts may not in and of themselves a reliable/authoritative source, but might be evaluated by a reliable secondary source such as Flayrah (if that status is extended to it) which is better-placed to do so through its subject-matter expertise - for example, we'd consider obvious things like driving together but also indications of a relationship such as being depicted together in costume and [NSFW] art, or even personal knowledge (in my own case I was only an acquaintance, so wouldn't be able to rely on that for much beyond "yes, they were into these things" - hopefully this was not relevant to the cause of death).

The primary source for the main claim in this case is not by the subject themselves (David/Spottacus has not responded to any of the posts - his Telegram was "last seen" at July 19 at 12:47 UTC; the X post was 17:10 that day) so doesn't itself qualify for the relevant clauses on posts by the subject on non-controversial info - it has to be evaluated by a secondary source.

All that said, I fully appreciate wanting confirmation from the "RL" side of things, even though in this particular case the subject was far more "out" in identity terms than many furries (this might prove a problem depending on how his family saw such involvement).

On that note there is also this comment thread on Reddit which might indirectly confirm his death if the identity and reliability of the poster could be evaluated by a secondary source, however I was not able to do so. GreenReaper (talk) 09:19, 21 July 2025 (UTC)

An immediate family member posted on the Internet, it lacks common sense to ignore that. If you need a justification consider WP:ABOUTSELF or subject-matter expert. Wikipedia has many exceptions, they are fuzzy by design. We as editors are tasked with evaluating the reliability of a source for a given claim. Those seeking "definitive proof" will claim that a photo of a gravestone was generated by AI. Rather what we need is evidence for why we should not believe a family public announcement, who are themselves the most reliable subject-matter experts. -- GreenC 15:26, 21 July 2025 (UTC)

A family member is not WP:ABOUTSELF, which applies specifically to comments made by an article subject about themselves. I'm not sure which "immediate family member" you're referring to, but right now we have a tweet from someone with "BF: @Spottacus" in their bio and a Reddit comment objecting to reports of his death from someone claiming to be his cousin. Someone needs to do the work to verify that these people are indeed close to Benaron and thus have accurate information about his supposed passing, but that is precisely the kind of verification we rely on secondary reliable sources to do, rather than sleuthing we do ourselves. As I wrote above: announcing that someone has died is important to get right, and it's better to be slow than wrong. Regarding flayrah, I don't think it's a sufficiently reliable source for a WP:BLP, but if someone wants to take it to WP:RSN, don't let me get in your way. GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 15:50, 21 July 2025 (UTC)

Maybe. We interpret ABOUTSELF as including a business talking about their employee, a parent talking about their child, any spouse talking about their spouse, etc. Why would we accept a personal social media post announcing the birth, marriage, or adoption of a family member, but not a personal social media post announcing the loss of a family member through death? WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:56, 21 July 2025 (UTC)

I've not seen it interpreted the latter two ways, but setting that aside, we'd still be basing the claim on a pseudonymous Reddit account claiming to be a cousin (unless some other post by a family member has cropped up?). GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 22:36, 21 July 2025 (UTC)

I agree that a pseudonymous Reddit account is a problematic source. Anyone could create such an account and make such a claim. The thread begins with a link to https://x.com/saigonthekomodo/status/1946618589836165437 which is alleged here to be the account for his spouse. (I've not investigated or even clicked on any of the URLs.) I would also expect his company to issue a press release.

(You have seen the latter two: "I'm happy to announce the birth of our child, Baby Doll. Mother and baby are doing fine" from a celebrity is often enough to produce a violation of WP:BLPNAME in the form of "Chris Celebrity and his wife Fan Fiancée have one child, named Baby Doll", and a post like "Our divorce was finalized today" is enough to prompt a change from "Alice and Bob are married" to "Alice and Bob divorced in 2025".) WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:21, 21 July 2025 (UTC)

I think the Twitter account suffers from the same issue, as I've mentioned above, in that it merely says "BF: @Spottacus". As I wrote there: Someone needs to do the work to verify that these people are indeed close to Benaron and thus have accurate information about his supposed passing, but that is precisely the kind of verification we rely on secondary reliable sources to do, rather than sleuthing we do ourselves. I agree that an obituary published by his family, a news release from his company, etc. will likely be forthcoming soon if Benaron has indeed passed away, which is why I've advocated to wait. GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 00:19, 22 July 2025 (UTC)

Flayrah has seemingly been used as a citation for a number of articles relating tothe furry fandom, most pertinent to this, as the source for Stalking Cat's date of death.

I've added it as a source, secondary to the San Mateo Daily Journal's death notice, but if you see fit to escalate it to WP:RSN then keep in mind its use on Stalking Cat's article too. beeps (talk) 10:40, 22 July 2025 (UTC)

Combined with the death notice I think we're good to go. Re: Stalking Cat, that article has several sources in addition to Flayrah, so similar thing there. GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 13:23, 22 July 2025 (UTC)

References

Rip

As someone who personally knows him he has indeed passed on please give his family respect and time 2600:1700:4570:32A0:4581:E81C:2C81:C633 (talk) 21:42, 19 July 2025 (UTC)

@gorillawarfare 2601:587:0:B590:9400:E72E:4F26:5E13 (talk) 23:22, 19 July 2025 (UTC)

Yes? GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 23:23, 19 July 2025 (UTC)

Cleanup tags added

I’ve added some cleanup tags to the article. Much of the article appears to have been written by a user closely connected to Benaron, if not the subject themself (see the connected contributor template above). Tinh1000000 (talk) 06:41, 20 July 2025 (UTC)

Page needs an edit

Sadly, he passed on a few days ago, according to his partner. Thewikimastah09 (talk) 20:36, 20 July 2025 (UTC)