Talk:Da He ding

Other ancient Chinese bronzes with human faces

As I said at WP:ERRORS,"the Da He ding is interesting and important, but are the bronze heads from Sanxingdui not sufficiently ancient, Chinese, or human faces? To put it another way, "only known ancient Chinese bronzeware to use human faces as decoration" is either wrong or POV. It seems to be based on Chinese language sources." 213.205.240.172 (talk) 09:20, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

Sanxingdui is not strictly speaking, "Chinese". Da He ding is inscribed with Chinese characters, but the earliest writing in the Sanxingdui/Sichuan region is the undeciphered, non-Chinese Ba-Shu scripts. But you're right that Sanxingdui is in modern China and usually considered Chinese in a broad sense. I've changed "bronzeware" to "bronze cauldron" to avoid confusion. -Zanhe (talk) 14:37, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

Did you see Fram's comment and link to a book that mentions other Shang dynasty bronzes depicting human faces, although from what I can see thay are not cauldrons. Here are some examples; there are also some bronzes from Xingan; and you might also consider Taotie to be faces, some more human than others. Jessica Rawson seems to have written a fair amount about faces in ancient Chinese bronzes. 213.205.240.172 (talk) 18:07, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

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Yes, I saw Fram's comment referring to The Cambridge History of Ancient China, which I've read in its entirety. The ubiquitous taotie in Shang bronzes is not generally considered human and is typically depicted in a highly abstract form. Also, the term ancient Chinese bronzeware often refers only to ritual vessels, to the exclusion of figurines, masks, weapons, coins, etc. In any case, I've already changed "bronzeware" to "bronze cauldron" to avoid the ambiguities. -Zanhe (talk) 05:05, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

Indeed, that clarification is helpful. wikt:bronzeware suggests a much wider definition, encompassing any articles made from bronze. 213.205.240.172 (talk) 08:20, 30 March 2018 (UTC)