Talk:Curricle
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Why was this moved here? -- Ϫ 06:36, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
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Tiger?
[edit]Should this and similar articles mention the nomenclature tiger for the groom? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (talk) 13:35, 11 April 2025 (UTC)
- Maybe in Coach (carriage) or Carriage, but not here. ▶ I am Grorp ◀ 17:55, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
Military curricle guns
[edit]@Kolya Muratov: This is a passenger carriage article. Your content should be placed into the Gun carriage article. I believe this was invented and named by Charles Lennox, 3rd Duke of Richmond and was likely only used by him and his. A "curricle gun" was not a curricle with a gun placed on it; such weight would have collapsed it. Since the curricle was at the time the only prominent two-horse two-wheeled vehicle, I can well image that he would tack on 'curricle' to describe his new mobile gun setup. ▶ I am Grorp ◀ 10:29, 12 November 2025 (UTC)
- Please place it yourself out of politeness. Help, do not just delete the contribution. Kolya Muratov (talk) 13:52, 12 November 2025 (UTC)
- I would if I could locate a copy of the Barlow book cited,[1] or any books related to "The Sussex Yeomanry", Lennox, or that specific Duke of Richmond. But alas I've spent over an hour and can find nothing available to me except excerpts indicating I am on the correct trail. I am not a history buff, do not have a library of military history books, and neither does my local public library. If you have access to that book, snapshot the relevant pages and send them to me. ▶ I am Grorp ◀ 18:52, 12 November 2025 (UTC)
I was able to find these sources for you by using Google Scholar and access via Wikipedia Library, but I'm unwilling to research further.
- Marsh gives a definition for a curricle gun.[2]
- Wills mentions curricle guns as 3-pounders, but his citation 203 is a composite of several sources and, checking each, those sources either don't use the word "curricle" or are not available to me online.[3]
- Felton describes that words such as gig and curricle are given to a vehicle because of the style of connection between body and undercarriage (in Felton's day, 'carriage' meant 'undercarriage').[4] Felton, therefore, explains to me what is a 'curricle ladder', of which I found several photographs online while trying to find 'curricle gun carriage'. It was a utilitarian cart with ladder, quite unlike the passenger carriage.
- One other source I read earlier, but didn't write down, indicated that a curricle gun had four horses; two driven and two ridden. That would have meant two in the rear to support the tail of the gun carriage, and two hitched in front (ridden) to help pull the weight and direct the entire rig (rather than a driver from behind). Some of the other sources I read mentioned taking as many as 24 horses to pull gun carriages... they were that heavy. So a two-horse gun would definitely have to be light and of limited reach, except two horses and two wheels do make for easy maneuvering that a 24-horse-hitch would never accomplish.
From all this, and the earlier research, I get the sense that the hitching set up and weight of gun for a 'curricle gun' changed over time, terrain, and military unit. I would expect that rather than shoehorning "curricle gun" into the Gun carriage article on its own, it should be accompanied by other 'pounders' in comparison. You are welcome to do so, but since I am not a military history buff, I do not care to research horse-drawn gun carriages any further than I did today and yesterday. I only went down this rabbit hole because my interest is in carriages and you kept insisting 'curricle guns' were related to this article, when I knew they weren't. ▶ I am Grorp ◀ 20:29, 12 November 2025 (UTC)
- Unfortunately, I do not have this book. I have very few physical copies at all. Thanks for the rest Kolya Muratov (talk) 15:37, 13 November 2025 (UTC)
References
- ↑ L. Barlow & R. J. Smith, The Uniforms of the British Yeomanry Force 1794–1914, 1: The Sussex Yeomanry Cavalry, London: Robert Ogilby Trust/Tunbridge Wells: Midas Books, ca 1979, ISBN 0-85936-183-7.
- ↑ Marsh, Raymond (January 1938). "Ordnance Field Service : Ordnance Service in the Corps, Part II". Army Ordnance. 18 (106).
Curricle Guns: Small pieces mounted on a 2-wheeled carriage drawn by two horses. Their tumbrils (caissons) carried 6 rounds of ball cartridge. Current in 1800.
- ↑ Wills, Garry David. "Section 5: British Battalion Guns" (PDF).
However, Major General David Dundas reported that Arthur Wesley (later the Duke of Wellington) and the 33rd Regiment of Foot were supported by 2 howitzers at Geldermalsen on 4th January 1795, where some curricle (3 pdr) guns were also present, attached to the 11th Light Dragoons of Laurie's 4th (or Light) Cavalry Brigade.203
- ↑ Felton, William (1996) [1796]. A Treatise on Carriages (Reprint of both volumes). Astragal Press. p. 75. ISBN 1879335700. OL 21753408M.
That which makes the variety of this sort of carriage, is the method of placing the bodies, whether hung from springs, or fixed on the carriage, which is decided principally by the fancy of every occupier : the generality fall under the description of curricles, gigs, whiskeys, or chairs; but that wherein the principal difference lies, is the curricle, being formed for two horses abreast, which at present is the most fashionable carriage in use; the gig from the whiskey also differs materially, the whiskey being constructed on the most simple plan, with the body united to the carriage, while the gig exhibits a greater portion of fancy, having the bodies hung in various directions ; it is by the form of the carriage, and the method of placing the body, that they are named, as gig, curricle, &c.