Talk:Critical Role

Orion Acaba

2019

People sneakily trying to erase his involvement in the project to the point him not being mentioned in the current version of the article even once. This commit may be reasonable one since being a 1/4 part of 2 seasons show may not be enough for an entry in the main cast table, but this one lacks any good will and is in clear violation of rules, since it brings the not applicable WP:ORIGINAL as the removal reason and falsely describes the changes. I am reverting the later commit and asking for active contributors' vigilance, since I am most probably not going to monitor this article for long. 77.1.94.167 (talk) 08:55, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

WP:V, specifically WP:PROVEIT, states it's not appropriate to restore unsourced material. The Destructiod source proves Orion's previous involvement; but gives no leaving date, episode involvement, or mention of his character. I will reword your restored entry until a source with that information can be found. Little pob (talk) 10:52, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

Isn't the studio's CCO's word, publicully announced in the show itself a valid source? 77.1.94.167 (talk) 11:50, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

It is valid; but it's also a WP:PRIMARY source, and we're restricted in what statements primary sources are used to support. Having (quickly) read WP:BLPPRIMARY, I'd like to err on the side of caution and avoid using it at all for Orion's departure... which isn't the same as saying he shouldn't be mentioned. Little pob (talk) 12:19, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

Found sources that state he played Tibs and the character race and class. Just need a source for his departure date - I suspect using the date of the last YouTube video he appeared in would fall foul of WP:SYNTH. Little pob (talk) 12:39, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

I think most of the content around Orion that was removed for being WP:OR has now been reinstated with references. In the few instances where WP:primary sources have been used, I've only used them to support WP:NPOV statements around his departure date, and that Tiberius is not in the animated series. (I doubt Orion will be cast in the project; but the source only states that Tibs won't appear.) Little pob (talk) 13:36, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

2020

I've reverted the change that increased the number of players mentioned in background from 7 to 8. Although there is WP:RECENTISM to take into account, Orion hasn't appeared on the show since C1E27 (~8.5% of episodes), and guests appearances are infrequent plus they aren't technically cast members. I do, however, feel something about Orion's departure can be added to the end of the second para of background. Given the lack of information available (presumably there's a gag order on all parties); there's not much that can be said other than he left after C1E27 and Tibs is in the comics. Little pob (talk) 13:53, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

I agree with the number of players being 7 especially as the show has moved onto a new campaign but that the Background section should probably mention his departure. Otherwise, Orion has been kept in all the places that list cast members (per MOS:TVCAST) as far as I can tell. The only formatting issue might be with the cast table which I think technically should be "ordered according to the original broadcast credits". There definitely is a lack of RS on what went down; the SyFy Wire review of the new CR coffee table book alludes to it: "In addition to recounting Critical Role’s early days (although not a full history — longtime Critters will probably be unsurprised to know that controversial moments like original castmember Orion Acaba’s exit are largely glossed over)". Also, Little pob is probably right about the gag order; Orion's podcast/youtube show about Tiberius got taken down and then republished with the main character renamed and Tiberius was written out of the comics in issue 1 of volume 2. But there hasn't been any coverage of that outside of forums/social media which are not RS. Sariel Xilo (talk) 17:26, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

I've added 3 sentences. As usual, my wording can probably be improved. I don't have the coffee table book; but if anyone is adding more about Orion's departure, please bare in mind WP:NPOV, specifically WP:WEIGHT. Little pob (talk) 18:47, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

2021

Emily Friedman's essay in the book Roleplaying Games in the Digital Age: Essays on Transmedia Storytelling, Tabletop RPGs and Fandom (2021) is really the first analysis of Acaba's departure I've seen & highlights there was a lot of fan speculation. I've included a quote in the article; I think there might be more but I was limited to the google books preview. Sariel Xilo (talk) 19:29, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

2023

See Talk:Critical Role/Archive 5#Inappropiatness of calling Acaba a 'main cast member'. Sariel Xilo (talk) 20:28, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

References

Starring order (infobox)

We had the starring order in the infobox as Travis, Marisha, Taliesin, Ashley, Liam, Laura, Sam, Matt. This was recently alphabetised. As the documentation for {{infobox television}} states to list in original credit order I restored; but moved Sam to between Ashley and Liam – so as to reflect the LARP-style opening from Campaign One. Though that was only used from episode C1E50, the show doesn't seem to have had a "traditional" credit sequence before that. Whilst we could use the order of occurance from the character biography introduction sequence, no credits are actually given. Another option would be to list the cast as announced/introduced in the first episode. However if we want to go with either of those options, Orion will need adding to the list. Thoughts? Little pob (talk) 17:29, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

Just to add; I am not opposed to adding Orion to the infobox. Little pob (talk) 17:40, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

I alphabetized the list, and I see the argument, but as you yourself point out, "credit order" doesn't work for a show that does not have classic intro or outro credits. If we use the credit sequence, why the one from campaign 1, rather than the current one? Campaign 2 has been using the order Travis - Marisha - Sam - Laura - Liam - Ashley - Taliesin - Matt for almost 60 episodes after all. Arcaist (talk) 22:22, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

Web shows break all sorts of industry standards. Maybe we should ask on Template talk:Infobox television for a broader view? Sariel Xilo (talk) 00:02, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

@Sariel Xilo Good idea, I just did that. Arcaist (talk) 10:44, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

If we use the credit sequence, why the one from campaign 1, rather than the current one? Only picked that because the documentation says original credit order. I presume this is because cast in traditional TV shows can move up and down the credit list as seasons go on. Little pob (talk) 12:33, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

For reference if we decide to so with this route, the cast are introduced in C1E1 in this order:

• Matt
• Ashley - absent, but Matt give apologies for absence
• Marisha - mentioned by name, but only talks about 826LA
• Travis
• Laura
• Liam
• Talisen
• Marisha (again) - this time introduces self
• Orion
• Sam

I'm not presuming we're going to go this way; but I'd was already on YouTube so thought I'd take the opportunity to note it down... Little pob (talk) 17:39, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

Favre1fan93 in Template talk:Infobox television said: You start with the cast order from season 1, episode 1. If that remains the same for the entire season, then come season 2, episode 1, if there are any newly added cast members (regardless of what the season credit order is) you add them to the end of the season 1 list. For example, if season 1 has credits A, B, C, D, E for the entire season, and come season 2, the cast is A, C, D, F, G, H, the order on the main article simply becomes A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H. Sariel Xilo (talk) 01:43, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

Commenting from 2025. I think the Starring infobox should be updated to reflect the changes and expansions to Critical Role's format (as a show and with its cast) that has occurred in its 10 year run-time. The "Starring" box is quite confusing in its current form and does not provide adequately clear information for readers (especially those who do not have prior knowledge of the subject matter).

I propose the following improvements.

1. The starring info box should: A) Give more context, such as changing single-campaign players from "Whitney Moore" to "Whitney Moore (4)" and multi-campaign players from "Robbie Daymond" to "Robbie Daymond (4)" or "Robbie Daymond (EXU, 3-4)" depending on which campaigns/roles are deemed relevant enough for the distinction (via Wikipedia's notability guidelines); or B) Have a "Main and "Recurring" sub-sections to distinguish cast members; or C) Be removed so that users may go directly to the "Casts and Characters" subsection for clarity.*

2. In accordance with MOS:TVCAST and Favre1fan93's response from the Template talk:Infobox television, Orion Acaba should not be listed as a cast member for Critical Role.

As per MOS:TVCAST, "cast members are determined by the producers (not by popularity, screen time, or episode count)" (emphasis mine), and the "cast" section for Campaign 1 from Critical Role's website only includes the following: Matthew Mercer (as "Game Master"), Laura Bailey, Taliesin Jaffe, Ashley Johnson, Liam O'Brien, Marisha Ray, Sam Riegel, and Travis Willingham. Despite the Infobox television documentation saying "original credit order," Critical Role, the producers of Critical Role do not credit Acaba to be a "cast member" for Campaign 1, nor is he credited as part of the main cast overall.

Additionally, Favre1fan93's reply in Template talk:Infobox television to this thread reads as follows:

"You start with the cast order from season 1, episode 1. If that remains the same for the entire season, then come season 2, episode 1, if there are any newly added cast members (regardless of what the season credit order is) you add them to the end of the season 1 list. For example, if season 1 has credits A, B, C, D, E for the entire season, and come season 2, the cast is A, C, D, F, G, H, the order on the main article simply becomes A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H." (emphasis mine).

The argument can be made that Orion Acaba is informally credited in Critical Role's webseries format through his appearance in Episode 1 of Season 1 (Campaign 1). However, Orion Acaba is not formally included within the "cast order" by Critical Role's production team, nor informally through visual appearance at Geek & Sundry's table, throughout the "entire season" of Campaign 1, nor does his Episode 1 credit "remain the same for the entire season."

Orion Acaba does not met the objective criteria to be a member of Critical Role's cast according to Template talk:Infobox television guidelines, and must be removed from the "[cast] order on the main article," including the Starring infobox/list.

3. As per the 2nd point, Orion Acaba should be removed from the the Cast table within the main article, as according to the MOS:TVCAST guidelines, "[o]nly cast members who have been part of the main cast for at least one season should be included."

Some alternate options include labeling Tiberius Stormwind to be a "Reccuring" character for Campaign 1, or override the lack of official/unofficial credit through "local consensus" that Orion should be included in Critical Role articles listing characters and cast as a recurring or guest member.**

--

Option A) takes direction from the following articles: Stranger Things (see: Showrunners), Star Wars original trilogy, Fantastic Beasts. Option B) takes direction from the following articles: MOS:TVCAST guidelines, Dimension 20. Option C) takes direction from the following articles: Sex and the City Game of Thrones.

*This option perhaps should include a link to the article List of Critical Role Cast Members after the sentence "Critical Role is a creator-owned streaming show where the cast play an ongoing Dungeons & Dragons campaign, with Matthew Mercer as the show's Dungeon Master for the seven other cast members." (i.e. If you would like to see an article dedicated to the list of Critical Role cast members, click here.)

**As per the MOS:TVCAST Guidelines, "Recurring" cast/characters can not "simply have a guest role across several episodes" or "[appear] in more than one episode, or in two consecutive episodes," but must have "a recurring story arc throughout the show." If Orion Acaba or his character Tiberius Stormwind are directly credited by the producers of Critical Role, or else deemed "by local consensus," to be a "recurring" cast member or character in Campaign 1, it may be appropriate to have Tiberius or O.A. to appear in a "separate cast table for recurring cast," which "can be included in articles listing characters and cast but should never be included in parent series articles." (emphasis mine) Fernglossary (talk) 23:51, 14 December 2025 (UTC)

The starring in the infobox considers the main campaigns specifically, as ExU and other series are different titles and other series. I would not be opposed to adding brief parentheticals to each cast member in the box, but they should be limited to the main campaigns specifically.

Your interpretation of "determined by producers" is not how MOS:CAST generally uses it; this is at the time of the season itself. At the time of Acaba's appearance, he was included and treated as a main member of the cast, and this is what "the producers" refers to. The stipulation of "if that remains the same for the entire season" does not mean "only list those who made it through the entire season", it is a directive for what ORDER people go in, i.e. if someone joins the main cast and is credited as such halfway through season one, they should be added to the end. It was not a comment on whether Acaba should be included, rather where in the order he should go. The discussion linked does not comment on his inclusion.

As for "Only cast members who have been part of the main cast for at least one season should be included" is on cast tables, not the infobox. ~Cheers, TenTonParasol 02:23, 15 December 2025 (UTC)

Hi! Thanks for responding. I agree with only adding the main campaigns as parentheticals; adding EXU also takes up too much room on each row (especially given longer names like Brennan Lee Mulligan).

In response to the second paragraph, I'm confused about the logic of Starring a cast member who left before there was a formal structure or credited introduction to the show. In a TV series, I can understand MOS:CAST's rules for inclusion, as its structure is pre-arranged and formatted; its content is filmed & edited before release. But does the same logic apply to to an experimental webseries? I think what is tripping me up is the idea that an individual who is present on a project before that project is fully formed/developed or intended to be a "TV"-like series (which is what we're basing our guidelines on), can be retroactively credited (as this list order was established in 2020) as if they were a full-time cast member for the TV show or season/campaign. Especially given that both sides definitively split. I understand wanting to preserve the historical record-- he was on the show and that should be discussed/explained. But I think it makes less sense to have front and center 10 years on (in the Starring infobox).

My real concern is that the cast members list is more confusing to look at and decipher, especially from a layman's POV, after the addition of Campaign Four's extended main-cast. I don't think it helps succinctly and efficiently distribute information.

I'll happily concede the "order" misinterpretation from the MOS:CAST guide and responding to the incorrect comment for a discussion on inclusion. Cheers :) Fernglossary (talk) 04:42, 15 December 2025 (UTC)

Infoboxes are simply a topline summary. We can reasonably assume that readers can navigate to the "Cast and characters" for more details. If you look at something like Desperate Housewives, you'll see that long cast lists do occur in the infoboxes and it doesn't indicate what season an actor is associated with; however, some use a "List of cast members" link instead (such as Grey's Anatomy). I'm not sure if there is a formal threshold length for switching over to a link since it isn't mentioned at MOS:TVCAST but we could ask at that talk page. Echoing TenTonParasol in regards to Acaba, CR is pretty revisionist about minimizing his role in retrospect so they're not a trusted primary source on this. We do have secondary sources referring to him as an original cast member. (Also, Exandria Unlimited has a dedicated article). Sariel Xilo (talk) 05:28, 15 December 2025 (UTC)

Hi Xilo! I appreciate the clarification. Infobox + wanting to avoid a revisionist history makes sense to me. Still getting used to using wikipedia from the editing side.

I think it is a good idea to ask about the formal link threshold in the MOS:TVCAST talk page. Even if the answer is inconclusive, or we don't meet the threshold, some editors there might have also have an appropriate style solution in mind that we haven't thought of. Would you be comfortable initiating that discussion? Fernglossary (talk) 21:55, 16 December 2025 (UTC)

Subarticle list

Just dropping a quick roundup of Critical Role subarticles below.

Mainspace

• Critical Role Productions with redirect MetapigeonMetapigeon & Beacon (streaming service)Beacon (streaming service)
  • Darrington Press
  • Midst
  • Candela Obscura
  • Redirects to sections: 4-Sided Dive4-Sided Dive, Age of UmbraAge of Umbra, Tale GateTale Gate, Talks MachinaTalks Machina
• List of Critical Role cast members
• List of Critical Role episodes
  • Critical Role campaign one
  • Critical Role campaign two
  • Critical Role campaign three
  • Critical Role campaign four
  • Exandria Unlimited
• The Legend of Vox Machina
  • List of The Legend of Vox Machina characters
  • List of The Legend of Vox Machina episodes
• The Mighty Nein with redirect Mighty NeinMighty Nein
• Critical Role–related products
  • Critical Role: Tal'Dorei Campaign Setting with redirect Tal'Dorei Campaign Setting RebornTal'Dorei Campaign Setting Reborn
  • Explorer's Guide to Wildemount
  • Call of the Netherdeep
  • Critical Role: Vox Machina Origins
  • Critical Role: Vox Machina – Kith & Kin
  • Critical Role: The Mighty Nein – The Nine Eyes of Lucien
  • Critical Role: The Mighty Nein Origins with redirect The Mighty Nein OriginsThe Mighty Nein Origins
• Other pages
  • Talk:Critical Role/FAQ
  • Template:Critical Role
  • Critical Role (disambiguation)
  • Vox Machina (disambiguation)
  • The Mighty Nein (disambiguation)
  • Category:Critical Role

Drafts

• Draft:Jester Lavorre
• Draft:List of Candela Obscura cast members

Ideas

• Timeline of the Critical Role universe – possible example Timeline of Star Trek (added by Little pob (talk) 12:18, 19 May 2022 (UTC))

Updated list & removed my previous comments which were just a log of me updating this list. Sariel Xilo (talk) 19:29, 8 October 2021 (UTC) Moved former draft into the mainspace list. Sariel Xilo (talk) 21:28, 27 December 2022 (UTC) Updated list. Added ideas posted at the template. Sariel Xilo (talk) 17:31, 26 January 2023 (UTC)

Another draft... Draft:List of Critical Role cast members. Will likely follow the example of List of American Horror Story cast members and expand to List of Critical Role Campaign 1 characters (etc) at some point (assuming the draft is accepted). Little pob (talk) 12:16, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

Oh, and the list of guests is not up to date! Little pob (talk) 12:17, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

WikiData

• Main: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q22079668
• C1: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q104771348
• C2: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q104603368
• C3: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q109094281
• C4: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q135935801

Continuing what was done for C2 (see Talk:Critical Role/Archive 3#Using WikiData for C2 episode count), #statements:P1113|from=Q109094281 displays the total number of episodes for C3 (ie. total count is now 121). You can update the total episode count over on WikiData and it will automatically display the episode count wherever the relevant template is. Sariel Xilo (talk) 18:45, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

Note: This has continued with the next campaign where #statements:P1113|from=Q135935801 displays the total number of episodes for C4 (ie. total count is now 31); if the total count is incorrect, please update it on Wikidata. Thanks! Sariel Xilo (talk) 20:15, 2 April 2026 (UTC)

Suggestions

Timeline (withdrawn)

With ExU: Calamity going to be set before the current in-world epoch; I wonder if there's enough WP:RS for a "Timeline of the Critical Role universe". Need to bear-in-mind WP:TRIVIA, and this is not intended as an WP:OTHERSTUFF argument; but do check out Timeline of Star Trek as it contains several methods of displaying fictional timelines. Little pob (talk) 12:18, 19 May 2022 (UTC)

While I like the idea of it, I would have to do more research to see if there are enough secondary sources for notability. The timeline could also theoretically be a section in a dedicated "Exandria (campaign setting)" article (currently Exandria redirects to Dungeons & Dragons campaign settings#Exandria). But again, I'm not sure about the notability. Sariel Xilo (talk) 16:46, 19 May 2022 (UTC)

I've not started research yet; the sources may not even be there. It's one of those ideas you could spend months gathering relevant information, only for it to be deleted for reasons you've not considered... hence soliciting comments now Little pob (talk) 08:45, 20 May 2022 (UTC)

Fictional timelines have, historically, not fared well on Wikipedia as standalone articles. My suggestion would be to add it somewhere in an existing article, make sure it is well-sourced, and once you are confident of its chances of survival, split it out to its own article. BOZ (talk) 20:44, 19 May 2022 (UTC)

Good to know, and would explain why there seemed to be a lack of fictional timelines when looking for examples of how to display such content (was kind of hoping they were just lost in the sea of real-world timelines). Adding to the main CR article would make most sense – provided the sources are there. As far as the idea goes; I've got the pan out of the drawer, but it's nowhere near ready to go on the stove. Little pob (talk) 08:46, 20 May 2022 (UTC)

Yep, see Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Writing about fiction#Plot timelines for a lengthy list of deleted ones. BOZ (talk) 11:07, 20 May 2022 (UTC)

WP:NOTPLOT looks a difficult bar to clear for a standalone article. As consensus seems to be for works of fiction to have prose statements of "X occurred before Y" rather than timelines as a list, table or graphic; I'll Wikipedia:Drop the stick and back slowly away from the horse carcass. Little pob (talk) 12:22, 20 May 2022 (UTC)

No worries. :) I'd think there would have to be some way to allow for a brief synopsis to be written somewhere, unless you think that is covered well-enough already. BOZ (talk) 20:48, 20 May 2022 (UTC)

Mighty Nein (draft)

Can't remember if Sariel_Xilo is happy for people to add to the list above, so to err on the side of caution just a note to say Draft:Mighty Nein has been created. Little pob (talk) 13:19, 27 January 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for making the draft! Anyone is free to make updates - I mostly made the list when there started to be enough CR related articles for its own subproject. Sariel Xilo (talk) 16:32, 27 January 2023 (UTC)

The Mighty Nein has been moved out of drafts so I've updated the list above. Sariel Xilo (talk) 15:29, 25 July 2025 (UTC)

Campaign 4 (draft)

Made an early start on the C4 article in draft space: Draft:Critical Role campaign four. However, think I've messed it up as the publish button for taking to article space is missing... (Not ideal but should still be able to manually move via Tools menu) Little pob (talk) 12:23, 3 August 2025 (UTC)

Sets

@ERAGON: thanks for expanding on the early set design! Does that book mention the switch to a custom game table so it could be used as an additional source? Sariel Xilo (talk) 17:03, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

No problem! I've only really looked at the first section of the book so far but I'll keep reading.--ERAGON (talk) 21:36, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

@Sariel Xilo: I read through the remainder; there's a few little bits of production info but a lot of it is in-universe or about the cast themselves. There's a lot of material one could use here to flesh out the early lives and career of the cast members on their respective pages; I've not done so. One little -perhaps controversial- bit I noticed too is that Tiberius is listed as a guest player in the book, not as a member of the principle cast.--ERAGON (talk) 14:18, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for taking a look! Re: Tiberius - that was brought up in a talk discussion on the cast list last year. In general, my feeling with CR is that they're a fine primary source for uncontroversial issues (ie. when did we get better mics & a table, creative influences, etc) but otherwise you have to be really judicious because they do have a pattern of trying to edit their history into a preferred narrative. Sariel Xilo (talk) 15:13, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

I was surprised to see him listed as such, but hey. If I get the time I might go through and use some of the background material on the cast for their respective articles; it's fairly in depth on those.--ERAGON (talk) 15:52, 12 June 2024 (UTC)