Talk:Country

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World map image

I am bringing this up to the talk page to discuss which world map is best suited for this page. I have implemented two world maps, but both got reverted. Here are some possible images I think would be good contenders for this page.

Please comment below which image you think is best. Interstellarity (talk) 00:47, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

Considering this is about political entities ...map should be about political entities ... as in one that names them.... not a Looney tunes map....and one that discusses the entities in this article. Moxy🍁 01:42, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

@Moxy If that's the case, then I'd support using the UN map below. Interstellarity (talk) 11:02, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

Opening definition is poorly lacking

At the moment the opening sentence of this article is "A country is a distinct part of the world, such as a state, a nation, or other political entity." The phrase "distinct part of the world" is so vague as to refer to just about literally anything. A grain of sand on a beach in Malta is a distinct part of the world, as is a country according to this supposedly reputable website. Then the definition defers to examples of other similar categories of things which themselves are nebulous and difficult to pin down. Thus the definition lacks any reasonable explanatory power.

Indeed it is the case that in the opening sentence or sentences of articles controlled by wikipedia power-users as depicted by the padlock icon in the upper right-hand corner of the article, they tend to be paltry or wanting.

At the very least, the definition should do better than "distinct part of the world", and I would encourage the power-users to give it a bit of thought and use a more precise or meaningful phrase in the opening sentence of this article.203.158.42.210 (talk) 19:28, 24 July 2025 (UTC)

It's exactly as vague a definition as is required to introduce such a vague concept, as well as to naturally accommodate any more specific conceptions of said concept articulated later on. Remsense 🌈 论 21:15, 26 July 2025 (UTC)

Is this definition WP:OR? All statements like "distinct part of thr world" I found on the web come from Wikipedia. Use WP:RS to prove it not OR, or edit it. SoAnnoyedToName (talk) 16:25, 9 October 2025 (UTC)

@Moxy:What do you mean? 'Distinct part of the world' is far from 'an area of land'. And 'pulling your legs'???? SoAnnoyedToName (talk) 05:57, 10 October 2025 (UTC)

What makes you belive that a country is only made up of land? Maritime boundary.... English dictionary gives the meaning and shows how to use them. For example, Britannica and Webster dictionaries say “a country” is a distinct part of the world, such as a state, nation, or other political entity. It may be a sovereign state or make up one part of a larger state. Both Britannica and Webster, additionally, explain that “a state, a nation and a country” are interchangeably used, but what is important to note is “it is a territorial entity, with a permanent population, defined borders, and a government that effectively controls the territory. Moxy🍁 11:44, 10 October 2025 (UTC)

The confusion may be related to the fact that if English is not your primary language, readers may not realize that a "Distinct part of the world" is referring to a territory. Both Britannica and Webster use the term territory to defined area of land, sea, or space that is under the control, jurisdiction, or influence of a particular country or political entity. May be best to change "Distinct part of the world" to "territory"?Moxy🍁 14:43, 10 October 2025 (UTC)

Britannica and Webster dictionaries say “a country” is a distinct part of the world, such as a state, nation, or other political entity.

It may be the author's OR. ..At least i can't find it

• "distinct part of the world" site:www.britannica.com - Google
• "distinct part of the world" site:www.merriam-webster.com - Google
• "distinct part of the world" - Google

SoAnnoyedToName (talk) 18:18, 11 October 2025 (UTC)

The word 'land' can also refer to the ground of the earth. SoAnnoyedToName (talk) 18:26, 11 October 2025 (UTC)

National animals

Would it be a good idea to list the National animals of each country and put it on their pages? Dynamismcool (talk) 21:01, 18 November 2025 (UTC)

This was made a a separate article along with all other National symbols because there's so many eg. List of national animals. Moxy🍁 21:18, 18 November 2025 (UTC)

👍 Dynamismcool (talk) 21:30, 18 November 2025 (UTC)

Does the term "country" really include what like dependent territories?

I'm now somewhat skeptical whether the term "country" really includes what like dependent territories, because:

1. BBC separates "countries" and "territories" into different categories.
2. Britannica bluntly points out that Hong Kong is not a country. Both of the sources above are frequently used by the English Wikipedia.
3. Each of entities like dependent territories has an independent country code, but ISO also mentions "we refer to countries and their subdivisions."

I'm not a native English speaker, so I'm not good at distinguishing words. These days Chinese translations of words like "country" and "state" are in discussion in Chinese Wikipedia and Wikidata. In Chinese the word "国家" almost always have sovereignty, while some say English word "country" don't. Authoritative dictionaries, including Cambridge and Collins, all translate "country" as "国家". Hong Kong or other entities usually are not categorized as "国家". I want to know what this word looks like to a native English speaker. SoAnnoyedToName (talk) 12:45, 20 November 2025 (UTC)

One thing forgotten to say: We're talking about the political unit (countable noun), not the rural areas or areas related to some particular features. SoAnnoyedToName (talk) 16:56, 20 November 2025 (UTC)

The concept presented here is based on international law not just united nation definition.

• USITC Publication. U.S. Government Printing Office. 1993.
• Droesse, Gerd (2019-12-19). Membership in International Organizations: Paradigms of Membership Structures, Legal Implications of Membership and the Concept of International Organization. Springer Nature. ISBN 978-94-6265-327-6....

Moxy🍁 23:07, 20 November 2025 (UTC)

These materials seem to focus on the preconditions for use in diplomatic settings, which deviates from everyday usage. Readers are more concerned with everyday usage, aren't they? SoAnnoyedToName (talk) 17:05, 25 November 2025 (UTC)

It will vary per English speaker, as the lead notes. CMD (talk) 16:54, 21 November 2025 (UTC)

It first mentioned "such as a state, a nation, a nation state, or other political entity. When referring to a specific polity, the term "country" may refer to a sovereign state, a state with limited recognition, a constituent country, or a dependent territory", then mentioned "The definition and usage of the word "country" are flexible and have changed over time". This gives the impression that the former is the main one. SoAnnoyedToName (talk) 17:10, 25 November 2025 (UTC)

Not sure which one is the former one, but "other political entity" is stupendously vague for a reason. CMD (talk) 18:20, 26 November 2025 (UTC)

Comment: I added a few citations on this topic. Generally, country is an ambiguous colloquial term, not really one that is clearly legally/academically defined. I really think we need to reflect this and avoid making the term look like it has an unambiguous definition. GeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 07:09, 11 January 2026 (UTC)

Lead changes and sources removed

Seriously we've been dealing with this since February or so.... The ongoing attempt to change the article to say "A country is a distinct political entity of the world. Political entities that fit this definition are sovereign states, states with limited recognition, constituent countries and dependent territories" and at the same time removing the sources definitely needs a discussion. I'm going to start one now. As one can imagine I don't agree with the change.... It's oddly repetitive and and leaves one to have to discover if a political entity is determined by land, also we have sources for a reason. Moxy🍁 02:20, 12 July 2026 (UTC)

As of now I realize I completely forgot I had accidentally removed the sources. My deepest apologies to you. TheCountriesoftheWorld (talk) 02:27, 12 July 2026 (UTC)

Also can you explain to me what a country is then or what a consistent definition of a "country" would be since one is needed to figure out if a polity is a country or not. Thank you. TheCountriesoftheWorld (talk) 02:28, 12 July 2026 (UTC)

A distinct land on Earth can refer to any territory with set borders meaning that administrative divisions would be included into the definition of a country. Without the "with a government that functions as a sovereign state, state with limited recognition, constituent country, or dependent territory" part, your definition is invalid. A clear, specific, and consistent definition acts as a checklist for whether a political entity is a country or not. If there are any problems within this statement, feel free to let me know. TheCountriesoftheWorld (talk) 02:35, 12 July 2026 (UTC)

Do we have sources for this definition? The change isn't reflected in the sources attached to them. Moxy🍁 03:12, 12 July 2026 (UTC)

Can you please figure put a concise and consistent definition to what a country is to put on the Country page. It will act as a checklist to determine whether a polity is a country or not. Describing what political entities are countries does not help us in the long run as political science gets more and more advance. Creating a constant definition of what a country is does. Please take this into consideration.

Yours truly, TheCountriesoftheWorld TheCountriesoftheWorld (talk) 03:16, 12 July 2026 (UTC)

Polity is a politically organized society or entity, such as a state, nation, or administrative region, that possesses a recognized system of governance. Moxy🍁 03:32, 12 July 2026 (UTC)

Country is a colloquial term, not a precise one. It is often used as a synonym for sovereign state, but not always. Generally, the best you'll ever get is "an area of land," but even that isn't really comprehensive another use case is to refer to rural areas or a hinterland. Examples include "country music", and "lets go for a nice drive in the country." Colloquial terms are a nightmare, and the worst is when very precise terms are colloquially used as a generic synonym for something we have a good term for, like "nation", or worse, "nation-state", being used as a synonym for "sovereign state."

You will never find a good definition for country because it is essentially slang. GeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 04:38, 12 July 2026 (UTC)

Alright, well then can you give me your best definition for what a country is? TheCountriesoftheWorld (talk) 04:49, 12 July 2026 (UTC)

Yes:

A country is a distinct geographical region or area of land. It can refer to an independent political state with its own government and population, rural areas away from cities, or other defining characteristics. GeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 04:52, 12 July 2026 (UTC)

The Middle East is a distinct geographical region by the way. Also, all countries have to be independent? TheCountriesoftheWorld (talk) 04:54, 12 July 2026 (UTC)

They don't. Scotland is considered a country and it's not independent. Sesquilinear (talk) 07:08, 12 July 2026 (UTC)

The model of statehood is complex, mostly because there are so many exceptions and unique cases in the world today and throughout history. Sovereign states are what most people think of, but there are also federated states that are part of a broader federation, which are often considered soverign states themselves. The most notable example is the United States of America, a single entity comprised of 50 semi-autonomous entities, territories, and Native American nations. The United Kingdom is the corpse of an empire, and recent Devolution in the United Kingdom has been part of the process where historically conquered subordinates returning to a more local form of governance. The term "country" is a term that is very loose in its application, and the confusion here seem to be that editors want to treat it like a very precise term. It is like the term sea, there isn't actually a good definition that is universal. Sea of Galilee, the Red Sea, the Dead sea, and the Mediterranean sea all use the term, but you'll be hard-pressed to find a good reason they are seas while Lake Baikal, the Great Salt Lake, the Gulf of Mexico, Persian Gulf aren't. Read the definition given in the lede for sea:

A sea is a large body of salt water. There are particular seas and the sea. The sea commonly refers to the ocean, the interconnected body of seawaters that spans most of Earth. Particular seas are either marginal seas, second-order sections of the oceanic sea (e.g. the Mediterranean Sea), or certain large, nearly landlocked bodies of water.

Look at the definition given on List of seas:

This is a list of seas of the World Ocean, including marginal seas, areas of water, various gulfs, bights, bays, and straits. In many cases it is a matter of tradition for a body of water to be named a sea or a bay, etc., therefore all these types are listed here. Entities called "seas" which are not divisions of the World Ocean are not included in this list, nor are ocean gyres.

Country is much the same as sea, it is mostly a "matter of tradition," and the article should reflect all of the sources on this, not try and cherry pick them so we recreate an article for sovereign state (or some other entity). GeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 08:13, 12 July 2026 (UTC)

Because my definition is way more specific than "area of land of Earth". So if you can give me a better definition then the one i’m proposing, I would genuinely be happy with that. I only want to present the most specific and best answer to "What the hell even is a country? TheCountriesoftheWorld (talk) 04:52, 12 July 2026 (UTC)

Way more specific is not way more better when discussing an ambiguous term that has multiple uses. We already have a page for Sovereign state. GeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 04:53, 12 July 2026 (UTC)

But Moxy’s definition includes political entities other than sovereign states so you restoring their original definition whilst contradicting it is not helping TheCountriesoftheWorld (talk) 04:55, 12 July 2026 (UTC)

There is an ongoing talk page dispute, I restored the last stable version. There are changes I'd make, which is why I'm mentioning it on the talk page. A "country" doesn't have to be independent, it doesn't have to be anything, it is just a word people use to describe areas of land that have a characteristic they can group together and say "this collection of infinite discrete points can be grouped together based on ___________." GeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 04:59, 12 July 2026 (UTC)

I suggest you read WP:3RR because I think you've already crossed the line. "If an editor violates 3RR by accident, they should reverse their own most recent reversion. Administrators may take this into account and decide not to block in such cases—for example, if the user is not a habitual edit warrior and is genuinely trying to rectify their own mistake." GeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 05:00, 12 July 2026 (UTC)

It may be better to go the other way with this page. Concisely cover the linguistics while removing the various sections that apply to specific meanings which have articles under their respective synonyms. CMD (talk) 14:21, 12 July 2026 (UTC)

Are constituent countries countries or are they administrative divisions?

Constituent countries are not distinct because they are part of the UK another distinct land on Earth, so should they be considered countries. This is the part where i get confused the most TheCountriesoftheWorld (talk) 07:50, 15 July 2026 (UTC)

Also could somebody please explain the relationship between constituent countries and their union state and what they are TheCountriesoftheWorld (talk) 07:56, 15 July 2026 (UTC)

You are using the term country as a synonym for sovereign state. They are not the same thing.

When it comes to sovereign states, they are the highest authority over a territory. A sovereign state can take many forms, including federations, which are comprised of federated states which lack international sovereignty. They can be made of provinces, which are just administrative divisions. For example, the article Countries of the United Kingdom states England, Scotland, and Wales have been referred to as "country, province, jurisdiction, or region" making up the broader UK. The reality is that the UK is an old empire that has been slowly falling apart since the end of the second world war, with the UK being the core of the old empire (it is also coming apart a the seems). England annexed it's neighbors through conquest, politics, treaties, etc. and formed the UK, then the broader UK went on to form the British Empire, comprised of territories and vassal states, dominions, colonies, protectorates, mandates, and other territories. The best word for what England, Scotland, Wales, and North Ireland are, from an academic standpoint, would probably be nation, which is a separate term from Sovereign state. Nations are "where a collective identity—a national identity—has emerged from a combination of shared features across a given population, such as language, history, ethnicity, culture, territory, or society." Nations do not have to be independent, and rarely if ever does a nation perfectly align with a single sovereign state (the theoretical situation where this happens is called a nation-state, and the concept is part of what served as the basis for some of the worst genocides in human history). "Country" is an imprecise term that is loosely thrown around in a variety of situations, a single unifying definition does not exist, and things that are considered countries are whatever the literature says they are. GeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 09:11, 15 July 2026 (UTC)

Proposed definition for "country"

My proposed definition for a country is, " A country is a distinct political unit with a defined territory, a permanent population, and governing institutions that exercise primary authority over its internal affairs, whether or not it is fully sovereign." It is a consistent definition that includes sovereign states, states with limited recognition, constituent countries, and dependent territories while also excluding regular administrative divisions. This definition describes the characteristics of what many people call countries. Let me know what you guys think about this definition and whether it is correct/accurate or not. TheCountriesoftheWorld (talk) 09:30, 16 July 2026 (UTC)

You forgot something important. What is the source for this definition? Dimadick (talk) 09:34, 16 July 2026 (UTC)

https://www.thoughtco.com/country-state-and-nation-1433559

https://www.iso.org/iso-3166-country-codes.html (Includes many polities that fit this description)

https://www.odu.edu/sites/default/files/documents/4th-non-self-governing-territories.pdf TheCountriesoftheWorld (talk) 09:51, 16 July 2026 (UTC)

most sources describe a country as land with a government, and sometimes the sources say the term country can both refer to the political entity (government) or Territorial body. For the past 3 or 4 months now you've constantly been reverted trying to remove "area of land" from the page now you wanna downplay the term country and say it mainly refers to the political entity and not the territory that much, you wanna say it mainly refers to the political entity (government). When people say "Im going to Mexico" they refer to the territory, however when people discuss politics someone might say "Mexico passed a law" that's referring to the political entity but in non political talk the term country almost always refers to the area of land. This has been a months long edit war. Would it make you happy if I put "the term country can both refer to the political entity and the territory" somewhere in the first paragraph so this doesn't have to continue much longer Kpop777 (talk) 10:05, 16 July 2026 (UTC)

Sure, why not TheCountriesoftheWorld (talk) 10:09, 16 July 2026 (UTC)

what do you think, is it good or do you want it differently? Kpop777 (talk) 10:15, 16 July 2026 (UTC)

ok I'm done tell me if you want it differently or if it's good Kpop777 (talk) 10:33, 16 July 2026 (UTC)

and I realize now it's dumb to call a country "an area of land" if some countries have multiple areas of land like the United States has Hawaii and Alaska which are their own areas of land but they're all considered one country which is the United States. The page is way more accurate now Kpop777 (talk) 10:40, 16 July 2026 (UTC)

It’s okay as it is now but I would prefer if there was a definition that didn’t just point put which polities are countries. A consistent definition that acts as a checklist is needed in order to truly figure out if a place is a country or not. TheCountriesoftheWorld (talk) 17:28, 16 July 2026 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not a dictionary, and we already have an article for sovereign state, State (polity), nation, and about a hundred other various variations on how land and people are grouped. We really need to watch out for Wikipedia:Content forks. Country and these other articles are sufficiently different that they fall under WP:RELAR, however if we aren't careful we might hit the point that country can just be a redirect to sovereign state. The article for country should focus on how country is different from these topics, while pointing how it is used as a synonym within the literature. GeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 17:54, 16 July 2026 (UTC)

Also, I have more sources to back my definition up. My definition is a synthesis of information from different sources.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/country?

https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/intam03.asp? (States a country requires a defined territory, permanent population, and government)

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/country? (States a country can be a political unit) TheCountriesoftheWorld (talk) 17:49, 16 July 2026 (UTC)

Best read over WP:SYNTH - what we are looking for are academic publications that you will find normally try to State the ambiguity as we do here (that is also mentioned above)

• Geertz, Clifford (1997). "What is a Country if it is Not a Nation?". The Brown Journal of World Affairs. 4 (2). Brown Journal of World Affairs: 235–247. ISSN 1080-0786. JSTOR 24590031.

Moxy🍁 21:23, 16 July 2026 (UTC)

Not sure about the reliability of ThoughtCo on Wikipedia (Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_281#ThoughtCo. seems to suggest "acceptable source for uncontroversial content", but is listed as "no consensus" on the list), but a good article in terms of raw facts is Differences Between a Country, State, and Nation. The article does a pretty good job of summarizing this introductory geography terminology IMO, even if it can't be cited, this is essentially the model I'd recommend following for definitions. GeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 21:56, 16 July 2026 (UTC)

I found more sources if you want to check over those.

https://legalclarity.org/what-is-the-difference-between-a-state-and-a-country/?

https://pressbooks.nvcc.edu/nolgeo210/chapter/the-state-of-states/? TheCountriesoftheWorld (talk) 03:53, 17 July 2026 (UTC)

There's a disclaimer about the content of the Legalclarity site at the bottom that gives me doubts as to its use as a reliable source. — Dædαlus^{+ Contribs} 06:08, 17 July 2026 (UTC)

The book article you linked explicitly makes country a synonym for State (polity), and defines Sovereign state separately. That is a start, but again, the ThoughtCo link I provided has a pretty good definition of all these that is pretty comprehensive of the different sources on the topic. Would suggest reading that, and then finding sources that could support a similar structure here. GeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 20:38, 17 July 2026 (UTC)

Calling a country a "political entity"

I would like to point out that calling a country a political entity is kind of too broad because the term includes many polities not considered countries. TheCountriesoftheWorld (talk) 22:27, 26 July 2026 (UTC)

There is no need to open another discussion on the definition of the word. The challenges around finding a single and consistent definition have already been explained. CMD (talk) 00:00, 27 July 2026 (UTC)