Talk:Collectivist anarchism

Dead Link Reference

Someone please fix one of the references. For reference number 11 the website is dead. It should be http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/death-of-the-left/ But the website is linked as http://www.amconmag.com/article/2005/jun/20/00023/ which is a dead link. It's a pretty important link because it says some of Bakunin's anti-marx stuff.

Semi-protected edit request on 7 September 2015

Please remove "The collectivist anarchists at first used the term "collectivism" to distinguish themselves from the mutualism of the followers of Proudhon and the state socialists associated with Karl Marx. Bakunin wrote, "we shall always protest against anything that may in any way resemble communism or state socialism," which Bakunin regarded as fundamentally authoritarian ("Federalism, Socialism, and Anti-Theologism," 1867)." from ===Comparison with communist anarchism=== as the exact quote is duplicated in ===The First International=== section of the same article and does not need repeated verbatim or even at all. Please decide which section it firmly fits in and keep only one quote.

References

Question on scope

This article has problems with its scope. Outside of the lead, almost nothing in this article is clearly about collectivist anarchism itself. Either talking at length about factional disputes inside the IWA, bringing up issues of collectivization that aren't clearly linked to collectivist anarchism, or repeating information already summarized in the lead - using lots of original interpretation of primary sources:

• The section titled "First International" is largely about the anti-authoritarian faction within the IWA, not specifically about the collectivist tendency. The only references to "collectivism" in this section appear to be original research, as they're attributed to primary sources which don't actually explain what is laid out in the text of this article.

• The beginning of the "Theory" section is largely cited to primary sources (Bakunin's Catechism and Guillaume's Ideas) that don't actually use the term "collectivism" or "collectivist". While the only other source is self-published, and thus ventures on being considered unreliable.

• The section titled "Critique of Marxism" has absolutely nothing to do with collectivist anarchism - merely recounting the conflict between Marx and Bakunin, and in turn between the Marxists and anarchists in the IWA. What's here, that isn't already copied directly from the articles about those subjects, could easily be moved over there.

• The section titled "Comparison with anarcho-communism" largely just reiterates a couple lines from the lead but with a lot more words. Again it's cited largely to a primary source (Guillaume) that doesn't even use the term "collectivist" or "collectivism", while the lengthy quote from the Anarchist FAQ doesn't add anything meaningful not already mentioned - just repeating more of the same.

• The section titled "Performance" is about collectivization during the Spanish Revolution of 1936. One of its sources never even used the word "collectivist" or "collectivism", while the other only mentioned "collectivism" through the lens of traditional Spanish agrarianism - not as a specifically anarchist tendency. So it's unclear how it relates to collectivist anarchism, even with the original research that incorrectly interprets the sources.

As such, I have been bold and provisionally removed all sections but the lead, which is the only part of the article that really stays on target as to what this article is about. If you can find reliable secondary sources that we can use to verify information, then please feel free to reinstate sections you feel should be. But as of now, I think rebuilding the article from scratch is a better option. Grnrchst (talk) 10:09, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

I have now rewritten the article. Hopefully this provides a better skeleton for future expansion. -- Grnrchst (talk) 16:26, 12 December 2022 (UTC)