Talk:Chiangism

Fascism?

Chiangism is not a fascist ideology at all. Many articles related to Japanese ultranationalists during World War II do not use the 'fascism' category. Using the "fascism" category in a Chiangism article is very silly. Japanese are not fascists during the Second Sino-Japanese War, but is Chiang fascist? Above all, Chiangism partially imitated fascism, but like the Japanese ultranationalists, it was greatly separated from the core elements of fascism.

Even in the Metaxism article, which was a member of the Allies, the 'fascism' category is not used. Chiangism was the ideology of the Allies against the anti-Axis. Like the Metaxism article, the "fascism" category should also be removed from the Chiangism article. I've never seen a case of proper fascism experts like Roger Griffin describing Chiang as a "fascist."

Prior to 1945, Chiang was not so cruel. After losing in the Second Chinese Civil War, the white terror attacks in Taiwan were very brutal. However, calling it a 'fascist' for white terrorism is very inaccurate academically, no different from calling Ngo Dinh Diem or Park Chung-hee a 'fascist'; Diem or Park also participated in anti-communist white terrorism as much as Chiang during the Cold War, and unlike Chiang, who was even an anti-fascist Allies, Diem and Park joined the Axis Powers of the Japanese Empire.

See Definitions of fascism#"Fascist" as an insult. Calling Chiang a fascist is just insult, both in the past and now.

Category:Fascism in China and Category:Fascism in Taiwan should be removed immediately. ProgramT (talk) 08:48, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

Chiang Kai-shek was not a fascist. He was a brutal right-wing dictator who massacred hundreds of thousands of civilians. However, he wanted a transition to a system of “sham democracy” in the Mainland era, albeit one strictly controlled and dominated by the nationalists, similar to the “democracy” in the ROK before democratic transition.

Still, he later gave up trying to transition into a democracy when his regime was relocated to Taiwan. He suspended the democracy and civil rights of the ROC constitution, and ruled as a life dictator. LeonChrisfield (talk) 14:15, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

Polybius117x has added an [[Category:Anti-fascism in China]] , and I support this. I also changed the title of the subsection from "Anti-communism, fascist influences" to "Anti-communism, fascist influences and anti-fascism". However, it is true that Chiang has governed brutally in Taiwan, so the [[Category:Authoritarianism]] / [[Category:Far-right politics in Taiwan]] should be maintained. ProgramT (talk) 04:47, 25 July 2026 (UTC)

Lies peddled by someone who is not even Chinese at all, but rather Filipino, yet suddenly believes themselves to be an authority on China or Chiang. All the citations you added have no cited text or even a link to view. Meanwhile, there is a sentence that clearly states Chiang viewed in 1935/1936 fascism as the solution to China's woes. Quit peddling your WP:POV false interpretations of Chinese history motivated by your own ideology projected onto Chiang (admitted on your own profile page) and conjuring up WP:SYNTH nonsense to justify it. You have been doing this for years. Even if Chiangism is not precisely fascism, it certainly is not "anti-fascist". ~2026-48174-24 (talk) 21:00, 5 September 2026 (UTC)

I only stated that I am not Chinese or Taiwanese, and did not specify which country I am from, so I will refrain from answering that part. However, your argument sounds somewhat discriminatory. Chiang opposed fascism is mentioned to some extent even on the Chinese Wikipedia, and [[Category:Anti-fascism in China]] was added by another user. So if you have any complaints, you can remove the category yourself: I will not restore it. (However, I oppose the radical removal of the content written in the article.) ProgramT (talk) 02:38, 6 September 2026 (UTC)

The Sino-German relationship also rapidly deteriorated as Germany failed to pursue a détente between China and Japan, which led to the outbreak of the Second Sino-Japanese War. China later declared war on fascist countries, including Germany, Italy, and Japan, as part of the Declarations of war during World War II and Chiang became the most powerful "anti-fascist" leader in Asia. – I think this is a sentence with absolutely no problem. It does not mean that Chiaing was purely anti-fascist, but rather that, at the time (despite the fascist controversy raised by some), he was regarded as an “anti-fascist” leader. (Try to think about why quotation marks are included.) In particular, considering several Chinese figures, including Wang Jingwei, who allied with Japanese fascists, this is a sentence that can be used without any problem when describing Chiang. ProgramT (talk) 02:49, 6 September 2026 (UTC)

allied with Japanese fascists? Didn't you earlier say Japanese are not fascists during the Second Sino-Japanese War? Also, declaring war on Axis countries does not make a country "anti-fascist", being part of the Axis was not defined by fascism. Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, and Finland (not Axis, but a co-belligerent) were not fascist countries, and I maintain that Japan was not fascist either. Even if Chiang himself is not precisely a fascist, he certainly was not an anti-fascist. ~2026-48262-63 (talk) 03:23, 6 September 2026 (UTC)

At one time, the Chiangism article contained far more content linking it excessively to fascism than articles related to Japanese nationalism in the 1930s and 1940s. (A few years ago, in fact, Kokkashugi articles did not even have a fascism category, but in Chiangism articles, anti-Chiang Taiwanese nationalist users often added many entries under the fascism category, templates, and related descriptions in Chiang-related articles.) Academically, it is clear that Chiang was far less fascist than the Japanese of a similar period. What is certain is that Chiang was an anti-communist, but a defeated and effectively fallen leader in the Chinese Civil War, while the Japanese war criminals survived even after World War II for anti-communist purposes with the United States. Therefore, articles related to Japanese nationalism are continuously defended by Japanese right-wing editors, but Chiang is not fairly regarded by pro-Communists and anti-Chiang [non-communist] Taiwanese nationalists. ProgramT (talk) 03:37, 6 September 2026 (UTC)

Are you claiming everyone linking Chiang to a well-documented trend of being a right wing dictator, is a Communist or a DPP supporter? The simple fact of the matter is that Chiang was known to ideologically sympathise with fascism and had said so himself in 1935. And just as much as you say calling Chiang a "fascist" is a political insult, calling his enemies "fascist" is just as much of one, as well. The political system of Japan predated fascism by decades. Neither Chiang, nor the Republic of China, were liberals, and they certainly were not anti-fascist. Calling him an "anti-fascist" just because he fought on the side of the allies, is a geopolitical label, not an ideological label.

Additionally, the term "world anti-fascist war" was an anachronistic term created by the Communist Party of China. Curious that someone who claims to champion or (supposedly) defend Chiang's legacy so much, loves using a term created by the Communists when it happens to suit a narrative. ~2026-48262-63 (talk) 16:37, 6 September 2026 (UTC)

At the very least, Chiangism contains fewer fascist elements than Kokkashugi. (Unlike Kokkashugi, Chiangism is difficult to trace to a source referred to as “para-fascism.”) ProgramT (talk) 07:25, 8 September 2026 (UTC)