Talk:Chen Congying

Incorrect pronunciation

"琮" reads "cóng" rather than "zong". The pronunciation in the title and article is wrong. Greencarp (talk) 17:18, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

Chen Zongying appears to be the romanization used in reliable sources, which is why I used it here. It does look like Chen Congying is currently a redirect to this article, so users searching under that spelling will still find the information. ForsythiaJo (talk) 17:49, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

Well, Chen was a person from PRC, so we'd better use standard Hanyu Pinyin to spell her name, just like her spouse Ren Bishi and all other mainland Chinese people. As a native Chinese speaker, I can say with confidence that those sources were all wrong because they use Pinyin to spell "陈" and "英". If they use Pinyin to spell two characters of a three-character name, they can't use other romanization method to spell the remaining character, or it'll be ridiculous. In mandarin Chinese, "琮" has only one pronunciation "cóng", so I think the article needs to be moved to "Chen Congying". Greencarp (talk) 18:42, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

Out of curiosity, I checked the manual of style to see if there is clear direction on dealing with a discrepancy between source romanizations. The page covering this is Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Chinese), with people being under the section WP:ZHNAME. That section notes "Per WP:COMMONNAME, use the version of an individual's name that would be most familiar to an English-language readership. With important exceptions, the common form is often the Hanyu Pinyin romanization without diacritics".

So under the common name criteria, the article should stay Chen Zongying, but there is some uncertainty because you say (and I believe you) that the Hanyu Pinyin romanization is different.

I've added a note on the talk page of WikiProject China to see if other editors familiar with this sort of thing might have thoughts on a potential move. ForsythiaJo (talk) 19:02, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

Looking up 琮 in my dictionary, I found cóng and an explicit "is not read zōng". Whether we move or not, we definitely need to add the correct pinyin to the article. —Kusma (talk) 20:53, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

I noticed this sentence: "With important exceptions, the common form is often the Hanyu Pinyin romanization without diacritics". Actually, the Hanyu Pinyin romanization without diacritics for "陈琮英"(Chén Cóngyīng) is exactly "Chen Congying". Greencarp (talk) 09:52, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

The Biographical dictionary of Chinese women uses Chen Congying, which is good enough for me. —Kusma (talk) 10:05, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Moved. —Kusma (talk) 10:11, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Pretty late to the party here, but I wanted to note I've seen this exact same confusion before: Rafe de Crespigny consistently refers to Liu Cong (Han dynasty) (劉琮) as "Liu Zong".

Looking at the Kangxi Zidian entry, it seems both the 《韻會》 and the《集韻》 give z-initial onsets: 組 and 子, respectively (the 《唐韻》 gives 藏, which helpfully can be read either-or).

Obviously, this has zero bearing on the outcome here, which was clearly correct, but I guess I put it here anyway. Folly Mox (talk) 02:01, 20 January 2025 (UTC)

Could there have been a sound shift? She was born during the late Qing. Vacosea (talk) 20:57, 11 February 2025 (UTC)