Talk:Carusu

Rewrite needed

"Italy in the Age of Pinocchio" contains a somewhat more positive view than the journalistic sources used here present, especially with regards to parents' views on carusi, their pay, and their disclipine, but integrating it into the article will take a large rewrite. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Eldomtom2 (talk • contribs) 19:53, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

Barabbas

Can we include Barabbas (1961 film) in the literature and film section? In that film, the main character was sentenced to lifelong slavery in Sicily Sulfur mines. Aminabzz (talk) 13:23, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

Carusi vs Carussi

Both spellings occur in the article (even in one and the same quote). Is it a typo? Nakonana (talk) 06:54, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Renaming the "In literature and tv" section into "In popular culture"?

With the release of the videogame Mafia: The Old Country just yesterday, would it be appropriate to rename the aforementioned section for the inclusion of this game? Igotnousername (talk) 16:17, 9 August 2025 (UTC)

Notability of a recent depiction of a carusu in pop culture

I'd like to start a debate on this. I know that my edit was reverted, and that it violated three things I was not aware of previously, but I think this is worth discussing.

Mafia: The Old Country is the latest entry in an immensely popular video game series, and is a very widely known game that sold well. I think it may be notable, because many people who aren't very knowledgeable about Italian history may be discovering what a carusu even is for the first time when they otherwise would not have heard of the carusi, because they played this game and heard the main character be called "carusu" frequently. It is also the first depiction of a carusu in a video game that I am aware of.

However, I am willing to admit in hindsight, I think my previous synopsis of Enzo Favara's depiction as a carusu in the section I renamed was too detailed. I shouldn't have mentioned that he joins a Sicilian Mafia family that rivals the one that owned the mine he was enslaved in to survive, and instead I should have limited it to just Enzo being a teenaged carusu who fights and injures a cruel mine overseer and escapes the sulfur mine, and that characters throughout the game frequently refer to him as "carusu", just to keep the details strictly relevant to the article as a pop culture depiction of the subject. That is how I propose it be written if it is decided that this is a notable cultural depiction of a carusu, and is added back to a renamed "In popular culture" section. Titanoboa Constrictor (talk) 10:01, 1 December 2025 (UTC)

Dear @User:Titanoboa Constrictor, thank you for your raising the issue. I think it is best we discuss it here and not on my talk page.

First of all, I suggest you read WP:IPCV, WP:TRIVIA and WP:NOTADVERT, which set out Wikipedia’s policy around the issue. Following these guidelines I removed a bunch of irrelevant trivia a while ago (see here), including the one to Mafia: The Old Country.

Let us go through your arguments as to why there should be a link to the video game in the In literature and film section:

1. You say the game is immensely popular and is a very widely known game that sold well. I see no evidence of this. The article about the game says that the game received mixed reviews and only quotes a CEO of the company that produced the game – a rather biased source – that it had “sold better than expected”. In other words, a rather a dime a dozen and not particular notable average game.

2. You say that many people who aren't very knowledgeable about Italian history may be discovering what a carusu is, because they played this game. While that may be true, that is achieved by the link from the video game article to carusu and not the other way around. There is no need to link it back.

In conclusion, in order to avoid the In literature and film section to devolve into indiscriminate collections of trivia or cruft, which was happening before I trimmed the section, I think it should not be included. - DonCalo (talk) 13:47, 1 December 2025 (UTC)

Hey, I'm glad you responded. Sorry for that intrusion on your talk page, if that isn't how you wanted this broached. I did that because I thought you likely wouldn't hear about this if I didn't notify you there. I'll address your counterarguments and make some new points of my own.

1. It is true that the game receives mixed to positive reviews from critics, while being received much more positively by audiences. However, regardless of this, it is an entry in a very popular series that has existed for 23 years, and been a lot more popular and considered mainstream since at least 2010. I think this series (not just the one game) is more notable and impactful than you may think it is, and to demonstrate some of that, in my early teens, even as an Italian-American with a long time vested interest in the history of Italy and the Italian diaspora, I only found out who your namesake, Don Calo is, because a fictionalized version of him briefly appears at the end of the prologue chapter in Mafia II, and then in the following chapter Vito Scaletta and Joe Barbaro talked about him during a car ride. I was in 8th grade at the time when I first played it in late 2012-early 2013 after I got it for my 14th birthday, then by summer 2013 I looked up Don Calo out of curiosity, and I found out that Calogeri Vizzini was actually a real person and began learning about his life and history. That is a common story, many people from younger generations found out who Don Calo was because of his brief appearance in the beginning of Mafia II that touches upon his WW2 era history, and learned more about the real man from there. I think that was worth getting into as a different further back example to how this series is notable and has had a measurable cultural impact. I hope that more reliable, citable data that isn't as close to the source can come out about the games' sales, since I know sales wise the game did do very well, and broke prior records for the series' sales. It might need time, because Mafia: The Old Country only came out less than 4 months ago. The Mafia series is one of the most popular organized crime themed video game series outside of the Red Dead Redemption duology and the more absurd and satirical Grand Theft Auto, and is known for covering and introducing people to a lot of history the games' various times and settings are steeped in. They are arguably among the most popular video games themed around the Italian Mafia. Regardless of what any of us think of the four games, the Mafia series is not obscure, and has had a notable cultural impact.
2. I can see your point here, and I think that a lot of people learning about the carusi and their important, ugly history who found out about them from the game will likely begin learning more about their real world history from clicking that link in Mafia: TOC's article. However, I have other reasons for wishing a brief mention of it be included on this page under a renamed "In popular culture" section. Some people who don't play video games or who are unfamiliar with this game may be intrigued and surprised that there is a video game about a carusu, and that we get a glimpse into their hard lives of slave labor through that newer art medium. It is also notably the first depiction of carusi in a video game, at least that I am aware of. Come to think of it, I'm not sure if there has been a depiction of a carusu in any prominent work of fiction that got a lot of attention that I am aware of in the past 10 years before this game. Also, in the context of this article, why is the Aurelo Grimaldi film Acla's Descent into Floristella notable, but Mafia: The Old Country is not? I have yet to hear anybody explain this to me, and I don't see why the film with a very barebones article is considered notable, but this game isn't. Whether you personally believe this or not, video games and films are both art forms with equal merit. I could see how the two short stories Il Fumo and Ciàula scopre la luna would be considered more notable, given that the author Luigi Pirandello was a prominent Nobel Prize winning author, but I think that including the film but excluding the game is a double standard that doesn't make a lot of sense. Why is that film more notable than this game? If anything, the game is probably less obscure than it.

I do agree with you that we shouldn't list off nearly every single work of fiction from literature, films, TV shows, to video games that depict carusi, to avoid what you outlined at the end, but perhaps we could expand the section without letting it get bloated by having a notability threshold. Ie: If the work is popular or part of a prominent series, and got a lot of attention and exposure, or in the case of the two currently listed works, if the author is notable. If something is very obscure and depicts the subject, it probably isn't worth including, unless there's a good, convincing argument for its' notability and impact. If we can agree on that, and perhaps get some other voices familiar with both the subject and this prominent modern cultural depiction, then perhaps that could be a good middle ground to reach, that both expands the article and touched more upon the long-standing cultural impact of carusi, while keeping the quality of it intact.

P.S. for any admins who may be reading: I think it is inaccurate and unfair for the edits of people adding that cultural depiction of a carusu in Mafia: The Old Country to the end of this page have been deemed "vandalism" on at least two separate occasions. I think most of these edits were done in good faith, and think that most of the people making them probably didn't know what they were doing wrong with them. I myself didn't know what three WP guidelines they weren't following until DonCalo pointed them out and linked them when he reverted my last edit to this page. To describe them as "vandalism" implies they were malicious and intentionally disruptive in nature, as if intended to troll. I don't think that was the case for the vast majority of these edits at all, and it's a misrepresentation to describe them that way. Titanoboa Constrictor (talk) 00:03, 3 December 2025 (UTC)

Hi, thanks for your reply. However, I still see no reason to change my position. Your response repeats the same points as before, just in more words. Personal experience is not relevant for Wikipedia content.

Videogames are a very recent phenomenon in the broader context of human history. In earlier decades, people might have encountered the term carusu through a comic book, a novel, a newspaper, or another popular medium. If we listed every such appearance from every type of source, we would end up with an endless amount of trivial mentions — exactly what Wikipedia guidelines advise against.

It may be difficult to accept that the world does not revolve around videogames, but in this context they are comparable to board games and not particularly noteworthy. If you disagree, please feel free to refer the matter to the appropriate Wikipedia dispute-resolution process. - DonCalo (talk) 14:49, 3 December 2025 (UTC)