Talk:Carni

Unreferenced claims

Removed lots of unreferenced bits (in terrible prose style and structure) from the article:

• Originally coming from the plains between the Rhine and the Danube the Carni settled, around 400 BC, in more or less extented areas of present day Friuli, Styria, Carinthia and Northwest Slovenia.
  • the article later states the first reference to the Carni dates to the 2nd century BC. I would very much like to know how we know what they were doing more than a century before that.
• The Carni lived for centuries in the fertile plains between the Rhine and the Danube rivers where other Celtic peoples lived.
  • for centuries, eh. A good thing they kept tribal annals so we know they did not form as a group, say, around 200 BC
• The Romans forced back the Carni to the mountains, they destroyed their settlement and they founded a defensive settlement at the north-east boundaries. The new settlement was named Aquileia, after the former Celtic name Akileja.
  • I suppose this can be referenced, in context, to Pliny or Ptolemy. Do it.
• Starting from 400 B.C., the demographic growth and the pressure of the Germanic peoples, originated a migratory flood towards the south.
  • There we go again with the deep Iron Age. Germanic early birds, eh.

It goes on... This is not an encyclopedic article, it is a Celtic fantasy projected into the prehistory of the Carni. We also hear the Carni "were headed by a king and a sacerdotal caste". Well so was pretty much everybody throughout the entirety of the Iron Age. Can we please see some indication of why this is brought up here in particular? Also "they were skillful iron and wood manufacturers"? How about "they were loving husbands and wives"? "their youths used to fall in love in spring"? It's not unlikely, is it?

To cut this short, we have a perfectly good and encyclopedic treatment of the Carni in the public domain, dating to 1854: This article should at least have the quality of that. Once it does have that quality, more material from later publications can be added. --dab (𒁳) 11:41, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

@DB if you really know the matter you should also know that "the first reference to the Carni dates to the 2nd century BC." is intended as an ancient official and sure date and that is from a roman triumphal inscription aka that's a classical source the 400 BC differently comes from archeological evidence, and it is also evident that in 400 BC there wasn't a roman administration in central and norther Friuli to report the descent of the carni in detail, the romans arrived there around 200 BC

Akilejia: the source is Plinio il Vecchio (Pliny the Elder) in “Naturalis Historia” 3,18,126

btw, as I'm starting my vacations very soon I hae to inform you that we'll be forced to defer the prosecution of our historical debate towards september Cunibertus (talk) 13:14, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

I looked up the reference in Pliny for "Akileja". It doesn't exist. Pliny only mentions Aquileia by its Roman name, once. Knotwilg (talk) 19:52, 16 July 2026 (UTC)

Updating with a link to books.google 8with also the mention of Carni as a wedge (cuneo)who broke the unity of the Veneti territories Scholar Giacomo Devoto considered them as a celtic people who entered in the italian territory from the Alpine passes in the 4th century BC. See: Gianna G. Buti e Giacomo Devoto, Preistoria e storia delle regioni d'Italia, Sansoni Università, 1974, pagina 56 Cunibertus (talk) 00:52, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

"Carni" - Karni as Vendic (west Slavic) for "hilly". Kara, Gira, Kira, Gora as "mountain". (also check about "Kirata" mongol people in Nepal who call them selves "hilly people". The Kirāta (Sanskrit: किरात) is a generic term in Sanskrit literature for people who lived in the mountains. particularly in the Himalayas and North-East India. There is evidence that the Kiratas were devotees of Lord Shiva. Slovene temple of "pagan" goddess Zhiva was on the little island on lake Bled in Julian mountains "where once lived "Carni". Shiva in Slovene mythology represented "life giver" the term "zhiva" means "alive". Slovene as "Gorata" (hilly). Also Rasenian(Etruscan) "kira" as mountain). From this name was derived "Karantania" (Kara as Gara, Gora - mountain) Gorostan also as latin name for Carni / Karni. Old name for Afganistan "Khorosan" or "Gorosan" (Goro-Stan; Goro as "hilly" and stan as "class, land")

Pre-roman and Celtic Aquileia

http://www.terrediaquileia.it/docebo/doceboCms/index.php?special=changearea&newArea=572 Cunibertus (talk) 16:00, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

50 000 men and Akileja?

There are, again, unreferenced claims in this article. Where do the 50 000 come from? Livius talks about 12000. Also, these transalpine Gauls entered the region of the Carni, he writes, not that they were the Carni themselves. It would even be strange to write about it that way, as if they invaded their own territory. Last but not least, the Celtic settlement of Akileja is completely mad up. The Roman Aquileia is much more likely to be named for lying along the water, but we don't really know.

If nobody objects, I will remove these sentences, or please provide a credible reference. Knotwilg (talk) 19:48, 16 July 2026 (UTC)