Talk:British Rail Class 70

"British Rail"

Unclear why this article attributes the locomotive to "British Rail" See - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail As Wikipedia's article on British Rail makes clear, "British Rail" was a brand name of British Railways, the long defunct nationalised operator of the British railway system. It was defunct long before this design was thought of. "British railways TOPS class 70" would be more correct (capital "R" for "British, small "r" for railways).

TJ — Preceding undated comment added 20:31, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

Because it is the British Rail TOPS classification system that is still used. Murgatroyd49 (talk) 21:02, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

See also several previous threads on this page, including #Possible change to the title of this article, which has a link to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK Railways/Archive 20#Naming convention, which itself is directly relevant. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 20:44, 13 December 2020 (UTC)

With the impending renationalisation of, at least, the passenger side of British railways, it will be shortly be an accurate desscription once again. Murgatroyd49 (talk) 20:53, 13 December 2020 (UTC)

So how many Class 70s are actually in service now?

In reading this article, I see several mentions of Class 70s being placed in service, withdrawn from service, and so on but it's not at all clear (at least to me) how many Class 70s are actually in service now (June 2025). Can someone who actually knows clarify this in the article?

Atlant (talk) 18:16, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

Requested move 24 August 2025

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. There is clear consensus that the diesel model is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC and therefore the disambiguation is not required and should be dropped. (closed by non-admin page mover) TarnishedPath^talk 05:54, 8 September 2025 (UTC)

---

British Rail Class 70 (diesel) → British Rail Class 70 – Per WP:COMMONNAME WP:PRIMARYTOPIC - this is a current class of locomotive, and the electric version hails from 1940. This should be the primary title. Danners430 _{tweaks made} 17:09, 24 August 2025 (UTC) — Relisting. Arbitrarily0 ^(talk) 19:15, 31 August 2025 (UTC)

• Oppose. WP:COMMONNAME has nothing to do with your proposal. Gonnym (talk) 09:54, 25 August 2025 (UTC)

  That is officially my bad - I just looked a second time, and I should be quoting WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, not WP:COMMONNAME. That's my bad, and a genuine mistake on my part - apologies! Danners430 _{tweaks made} 10:24, 25 August 2025 (UTC)

• Support. Clear primary topic over the older locomotive, and borne out by page views. Mackensen (talk) 12:16, 26 August 2025 (UTC)
• Support. Per above. I'd suggest perhaps also moving the British Rail Class 70 (electric) to (Southern Railway) instead, just as its a more accurate descriptor of the loco 92.238.64.134 (talk) 21:40, 31 August 2025 (UTC)
• Support: per primary topic as the electric one is a prototype. I prefer "Class 70 (electric locomotive)" to "Class 70 (Southern Railway)" but it's only a mild preference. Just make sure one is a redirect to the other. JacobTheRox^{(talk | contributions)} 22:23, 31 August 2025 (UTC)
• Oppose - the previous discussions about the two different class 70's decided that power method was a good disambiguator as neither would change. That still holds true.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Mjroots (talk • contribs) 12:45, 3 September 2025 (UTC)

But why is a disambiguator even needed when WP:PRIMARYTOPIC is clearly applicable here? Danners430 _{tweaks made} 11:47, 3 September 2025 (UTC)

@Danners430: Before the introduction of the diesel locomotives, the electric locomotives were the primary (and only) topic of British Rail Class 70s. Whether or not the diesel locomotives are the PRIMARYTOPIC of British Rail Class 70 is arguable, and I would argue against. Sticking to the motive power is simple and effective. Mjroots (talk) 08:36, 5 September 2025 (UTC)

It’s pretty obvious that it is the primary topic - see the analysis of page views by Mackensen above. The electric version has been out of service for decades, and the diesel one is actively in service. It’s the same reason we give current TOCs the primary topic name, and “relegate” former TOCs to a disambiguated title if they share the same name.

This exact same scenario has also played out at the articles for the Class 93 and Class 99, and they were moved under the same rationale - that the former uses of that class designator had been out of service for decades, and current page views and interest made it clear that the modern uses were the primary topic. Danners430 _{tweaks made} 08:40, 5 September 2025 (UTC)

• Support - the diesel locomotive is the clear primary topic, as per above. JuniperChill (talk) 09:50, 5 September 2025 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.